Discussion:
My success with MS patients - a little hope and free information
(too old to reply)
Andrew Cavanagh
2004-02-15 04:19:58 UTC
Permalink
I believe you can beat MS.

Let me introduce myself.
I am Andrew Cavanagh, a health writer from Australia.
I am a member of the Australasian Medical Writers association.
I've been involved in the health and fitness field for over 15 years as a
writer and consultant.

I would hate to give people false hope but it is my experience and the
experience of many other well credentialled, high profile leaders in the
health field that you can halt the progression of multiple sclerosis and
even reverse existing symptoms.
My notes on this disease are below.
You can also download the notes and the highly recommended free book From
Depression to Glorious Health from the website
www.geocities.com/glorioushealth
This book was originally written as a protocol for an MS sufferer and has
proved to be effective.

MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS

Multiple sclerosis is an autoimmune disease.
Basically your body's immume system begins attacking the myelin sheath of
your nerve endings particulary in your brain.

The origninal cause of this confusion of the immune system is most likely a
Herpes virus (HHV6). It is possible other viruses could be similarly
responsible (possibly chickenpox and measles).
The herpes virus resides in the nerve base and moves to the nerve endings
initiating a herpes episode (blisters etc). MS episodes are usually
preceded by some form of viral attack and especially a herpes episode.

Herpes is spread by contact with blisters containing the active herpes
virus.
The most likely method that Herpes reaches your brain is through
1. Contact with the active herpes virus (blisters) through your fingers
2. Subsequent contact with the mouth.

Nail biting is especially implicated in MS (Which could explain the higher
incidence in women. More women bite their nails than men).

Leading expert on advanced hygiene Dr Kenneth Seaton suggests that the
confusion of your immune system could be caused when protein in the
fingernails, mucus, dead skin and other proteins similar in constitution to
the myelin sheath in your nerves are ingested with the active herpes virus.

If the virus takes up residence in the nerve endings of your brain then this
could lead to your immune system confusing the myelin sheath of the nerve
endings in your brain with the virus which has been ingested with these
proteins similar in constitution to the myelin sheath.

The overactive immune response in autoimmune diseases like MS is usually
related to bad eicosanoids called cytokines which regulate immune response.

Continuing inflammation, which can result in further and continued damage is
related to the bad eicosanoid PGE2 which has been found in elevated levels
in patients with MS and depression. (The two diseases are linked.
Depression is very common in MS patients).

TREATMENT.

FISH OIL
Large dosage of pharmaceutical grade fish oil is usually an effective
treatment for MS.
Recommeded dosage is around 2-4 teaspoons or 8-16 capsules of pharmaceutical
grade fish oil (5-10 grams of omega 3 fatty acids).

Doses are usually more effective if increased sympotmatically (if your
symptoms don't disappear increase the dose) and in severe cases a dosage as
high as 20grams of omega 3 fatty acids a day may be appropriate - twice the
maximum dose listed above.

Dosage should be maintained indefinitely to ensure symptoms do not reappear.
Basically you take the minimum dose of fish oil required to be free of the
symptoms of MS and depression.
It is important to note that ceasing intake of fish oil is likely to result
in the return of MS symptoms.

In the absence of an AA/EPA test (which is recommended) you can get a
guideline on your dosage for pharmaceutical grade fish oil with a simple
cholesterol test you can have at your local doctor's.
Divide your triglycerides(TG) by HDL. You should aim for a TG/HDL ratio of
around 0.3 to 1. If it is more than 1.5 you probably need to take a higher
dose of fish oil. Higher than 2 and you definitely need more fish oil (also
look at diet, exercise etc.)

HOW FISH OIL WORKS

The fish oil can work in two basic ways.
The EPA in fish oil is the major building block of good eicosanoids and can
slow down your body's production of the bad eicosanoids like the cytokines
and PGE2. EPA can reduce levels of bad eicosanoids by inhibiting an enzyme
called delta 5 desaturase which is required for their production.

The DHA in fish oil helps repair nerve endings, and lay down new brain
tissue.
Remember it is damage to the myelin sheath in the nerve endings that is the
primary cause of MS symptoms.

DIET

The original and very effective Swank diet for MS was based on fish and eggs
as protein sources. No milk or dairy. No red meat. No wheat products or
sugar. Very similar to a zone diet.
Over a 35 year period (an impressive length of time for any study) 95% of
patients on the Swank diet never progressed to any form of disability.

I believe a zone diet which incorporates the elimination of dairy, wheat,
sugar and most red meat not only coincides with a Swank diet but should be
more effective by reducing levels of the bad eicosanoids implicated in MS
(the cytokines and PGE2 in particular).

The book From Depression to Glorious Health which you can dowload free at
www.geocities.com/glorioushealth describes a zone type diet designed for MS
and depression patients.

But any zone diet should be effective if it eliminates:
dairy - the peptides in milk have been found to be molecular mimics of self
antigens in myelin
wheat products and sugar linked to cadidas (see below)
limits red meat and egg yolks (egg yolks, red meat and especially the fat in
red meat are high in arachadonic acid the building block of bad eicosanoids)

CANDIDAS

Candidas is common in MS patients (often due to courses of antibiotics taken
for viruses like herpes) so the elimination of sugar and wheat which tend to
feed this bacteria and taking a daily dose of an acidophilus/bifidus capsule
between meals should help restore intestinal flora.

VITAMIN C

The herpes virus (and many other viruses) can respond to large, frequent
doses of vitamin C especially if the does are titrated to bowel tolerance at
the onset of early symptoms. Suggested dosage is 4-30 daily doses of
250mg-1500mg of vitamin C with bioflavinoids (powder in water).
Cold sores are often eliminated with large doses of vitamin C.

HYGEINE

Stop biting your nails.
Any reinnoculation of the virus could potentially worsen the MS condition.
Avoid contact between your fingers and your mouth.
Use kitchen utensils to eat.
Clean your fingernails with clean zone soap from
www.advancedhygieneproducts.com to reduce any chance of reinnoculation and
to reduce the chance of picking up other viruses which can lead to an MS
episode.
Avoid contact between your fingers and your eyes and nose for the same
reason.
Perform facial dips once or twice daily to prevent the development of
respiratory viruses.

EMOTIONAL HEALTH
Excess stress can lead to the excess release of the stress hormone cortisol.
Too much cortisol leads to an overproduction of bad eicosanoids like PGE2
and cytokines.
So learning basic relaxation methods and dealing with emotional distress
effectively is essential for the MS patient.
The negative thinking spiral is common to MS and depression. Sharing
problems and feelings with someone objective and various forms of therapy
(cognitive therapy etc) are recommended.
EFT (emotional freedom technique - a method for relieving negative emotions
is highly recommended.
These are covered in more detail in From Depression to Glorious Health (free
download www.geocities.com/glorioushealth ).

SLEEP

Sleep onset and quality can be poor in patients with MS and depression.
This is related to low levels of serotonin, the "feel good" hormone, which
is converted to melatonin the "sleep" hormone.
The good eicosanoid PGE1 is responsible for the release and uptake of
serotonin so increasing levels of good eicosanoids with diet and lifestyle
should help improve sleep.

Getting 15-30 minutes of bright sunshine in the morning and limiting
exposure to bright lights at night (red light is allright) can help improve
sleep patterns and quality of sleep.
Also consider supplementing with 3-6mg of melatonin a half hour to an hour
before bedtime to help with sleep onset and quality.

EXERCISE

Exercise can help reduce levels of the stress hormone cortisol and help
increase insulin sensitivity both of which can help increase the production
of good eicosanoids.
Repetitive exercise like walking or jogging also helps release the feel good
hormone serotonin.
Exercise and stretching in the morning can help improve sleep quality at
night.
Some strength building exercises (push ups, abdominal crunches and squats)
are recommended along with some aerobic exercise (walking, jogging,
dancing).
A total daily exercise time of 25-45 minutes is probably a healthy goal you
can work up to gradually.
Performing EFT (the method for relieving emotional distress) while
exercising is highly recommended.

CONCLUSION

Of all these therapies diet is probably the most effective at halting the
progression of MS and pharmaceutical grade fish oil is probably the most
effective at reversing the physical symptoms of the disease. Larger doses
of fish oil will probably be necessary if the other guidelines are not being
met.
Hygiene, emotional health, sleep and exercise should all be undetaken
seriously to achieve excellent long term health.
It should be noted that depression can be considered an early symptom of the
more serious symptoms of MS in the MS patient since both diseases are linked
to the bad eicosanoid PGE2.
So to be symptom free from MS you also need to eliminate any symptoms of
depression.

The book From depression to glorious health is highly recommended and free.
Website: www.geocities.com/glorioushealth
Michael
2004-02-15 04:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
I believe you can beat MS.
That's nice.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Let me introduce myself.
I am Andrew Cavanagh, a health writer from Australia.
I am a member of the Australasian Medical Writers association.
I've been involved in the health and fitness field for over 15 years
as a writer and consultant.
So you're actually not qualified to do more than report on what other people
say.

Not that there's something specially wrong with that, but we need to set the
record straight so there's no illusion that you're saying anything you
actually *know*.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
I would hate to give people false hope but it is my experience and the
experience of many other well credentialled, high profile leaders in
the health field that you can halt the progression of multiple
sclerosis and even reverse existing symptoms.
Would you please document that experience and cite wthe names and
credentials of your "high profile leaders"?
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
My notes on this disease are below.
You can also download the notes and the highly recommended free book
From Depression to Glorious Health from the website
www.geocities.com/glorioushealth
This book was originally written as a protocol for an MS sufferer and
has proved to be effective.
Effective at what, precisely?
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS
Multiple sclerosis is an autoimmune disease.
Good so far.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Basically your body's immume system begins attacking the myelin
sheath of your nerve endings particulary in your brain.
Bzzzzzzt. In your entire central nervous system... that is, your brain and
your spinal cord
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
The origninal cause of this confusion of the immune system is most
likely a Herpes virus (HHV6). It is possible other viruses could be
similarly responsible (possibly chickenpox and measles).
The herpes virus resides in the nerve base and moves to the nerve
endings initiating a herpes episode (blisters etc). MS episodes are
usually preceded by some form of viral attack and especially a herpes
episode.
Practically every human being alive in the modern world has had and HHV6
infection before they reach middle-age... and yet only about 1 in 1000 (and
even fewer in non-whites and those born and grown in lower lattitudes) have
MS.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Herpes is spread by contact with blisters containing the active herpes
virus.
The most likely method that Herpes reaches your brain is through
1. Contact with the active herpes virus (blisters) through your fingers
2. Subsequent contact with the mouth.
Nail biting is especially implicated in MS (Which could explain the
higher incidence in women. More women bite their nails than men).
Oh. Would you care to cite where this logic is spelled out in full?
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Leading expert on advanced hygiene Dr Kenneth Seaton suggests that the
confusion of your immune system could be caused when protein in the
fingernails, mucus, dead skin and other proteins similar in
constitution to the myelin sheath in your nerves are ingested with
the active herpes virus.
Uhhh... is there some reason it this particular route is more likely to make
HHV6 appear in the brain than simply putting a finger to one's mouth and
then swallowing the oral-mucosa-laden saliva that's already there?

You've made a real stretch here... show that it's valid, please.

Oh... and put your name in the hat for your Nobel in Medicine while you're
at it.

((U))
M
Joan Carter
2004-02-15 18:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Oh... and put your name in the hat for your Nobel in Medicine while you're
at it.
My thoughts exactly, Michael. Another troll.


---
Joan
Andrewcavanagh
2004-02-21 05:59:28 UTC
Permalink
Thank you for your reply.
The most obvious high profile leader would be Dr Barry Sears bestselling author of the Omega Rx Zone an an expert in drug delivery with many patents etc.

I do not claim to be an expert.
I am an experienced and well respected health writer and a member of the Australasian Medical Writer's Association.

You're right of course MS is in your entire nervous system. But then if you read what I wrote that is, in fact what I said.

A published JAMA article showed a definitive link between HHV6 and MS.

The connection between viruses and autoimmune diseases and the tranmission route is well established. I suggest you read Life health and longevity by Dr Kenneth Seaton from the National Hygiene foundation.

Thank you again for your reply.

I wish you the best of health and send you love.

Andrew
David S-H
2004-02-15 09:33:41 UTC
Permalink
Cor, that's nail-biting stuff!

Rgds

David
--------------------
Campath-1H - my experience of it.
http://www.davidscampathstory.org/

Please help me raise money for the UK MS Soc
http://www.davidsbigfootwalk.com
-------------------
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
I believe you can beat MS.
Let me introduce myself.
I am Andrew Cavanagh, a health writer from Australia.
I am a member of the Australasian Medical Writers association.
I've been involved in the health and fitness field for over 15 years as a
writer and consultant.
I would hate to give people false hope but it is my experience and the
experience of many other well credentialled, high profile leaders in the
health field that you can halt the progression of multiple sclerosis and
even reverse existing symptoms.
My notes on this disease are below.
You can also download the notes and the highly recommended free book From
Depression to Glorious Health from the website
www.geocities.com/glorioushealth
This book was originally written as a protocol for an MS sufferer and has
proved to be effective.
MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS
Multiple sclerosis is an autoimmune disease.
Basically your body's immume system begins attacking the myelin sheath of
your nerve endings particulary in your brain.
The origninal cause of this confusion of the immune system is most likely a
Herpes virus (HHV6). It is possible other viruses could be similarly
responsible (possibly chickenpox and measles).
The herpes virus resides in the nerve base and moves to the nerve endings
initiating a herpes episode (blisters etc). MS episodes are usually
preceded by some form of viral attack and especially a herpes episode.
Herpes is spread by contact with blisters containing the active herpes
virus.
The most likely method that Herpes reaches your brain is through
1. Contact with the active herpes virus (blisters) through your fingers
2. Subsequent contact with the mouth.
Nail biting is especially implicated in MS (Which could explain the higher
incidence in women. More women bite their nails than men).
Leading expert on advanced hygiene Dr Kenneth Seaton suggests that the
confusion of your immune system could be caused when protein in the
fingernails, mucus, dead skin and other proteins similar in constitution to
the myelin sheath in your nerves are ingested with the active herpes virus.
If the virus takes up residence in the nerve endings of your brain then this
could lead to your immune system confusing the myelin sheath of the nerve
endings in your brain with the virus which has been ingested with these
proteins similar in constitution to the myelin sheath.
The overactive immune response in autoimmune diseases like MS is usually
related to bad eicosanoids called cytokines which regulate immune response.
Continuing inflammation, which can result in further and continued damage is
related to the bad eicosanoid PGE2 which has been found in elevated levels
in patients with MS and depression. (The two diseases are linked.
Depression is very common in MS patients).
TREATMENT.
FISH OIL
Large dosage of pharmaceutical grade fish oil is usually an effective
treatment for MS.
Recommeded dosage is around 2-4 teaspoons or 8-16 capsules of
pharmaceutical
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
grade fish oil (5-10 grams of omega 3 fatty acids).
Doses are usually more effective if increased sympotmatically (if your
symptoms don't disappear increase the dose) and in severe cases a dosage as
high as 20grams of omega 3 fatty acids a day may be appropriate - twice the
maximum dose listed above.
Dosage should be maintained indefinitely to ensure symptoms do not reappear.
Basically you take the minimum dose of fish oil required to be free of the
symptoms of MS and depression.
It is important to note that ceasing intake of fish oil is likely to result
in the return of MS symptoms.
In the absence of an AA/EPA test (which is recommended) you can get a
guideline on your dosage for pharmaceutical grade fish oil with a simple
cholesterol test you can have at your local doctor's.
Divide your triglycerides(TG) by HDL. You should aim for a TG/HDL ratio of
around 0.3 to 1. If it is more than 1.5 you probably need to take a higher
dose of fish oil. Higher than 2 and you definitely need more fish oil (also
look at diet, exercise etc.)
HOW FISH OIL WORKS
The fish oil can work in two basic ways.
The EPA in fish oil is the major building block of good eicosanoids and can
slow down your body's production of the bad eicosanoids like the cytokines
and PGE2. EPA can reduce levels of bad eicosanoids by inhibiting an enzyme
called delta 5 desaturase which is required for their production.
The DHA in fish oil helps repair nerve endings, and lay down new brain
tissue.
Remember it is damage to the myelin sheath in the nerve endings that is
the
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
primary cause of MS symptoms.
DIET
The original and very effective Swank diet for MS was based on fish and eggs
as protein sources. No milk or dairy. No red meat. No wheat products or
sugar. Very similar to a zone diet.
Over a 35 year period (an impressive length of time for any study) 95% of
patients on the Swank diet never progressed to any form of disability.
I believe a zone diet which incorporates the elimination of dairy, wheat,
sugar and most red meat not only coincides with a Swank diet but should be
more effective by reducing levels of the bad eicosanoids implicated in MS
(the cytokines and PGE2 in particular).
The book From Depression to Glorious Health which you can dowload free at
www.geocities.com/glorioushealth describes a zone type diet designed for MS
and depression patients.
dairy - the peptides in milk have been found to be molecular mimics of self
antigens in myelin
wheat products and sugar linked to cadidas (see below)
limits red meat and egg yolks (egg yolks, red meat and especially the fat in
red meat are high in arachadonic acid the building block of bad eicosanoids)
CANDIDAS
Candidas is common in MS patients (often due to courses of antibiotics taken
for viruses like herpes) so the elimination of sugar and wheat which tend to
feed this bacteria and taking a daily dose of an acidophilus/bifidus capsule
between meals should help restore intestinal flora.
VITAMIN C
The herpes virus (and many other viruses) can respond to large, frequent
doses of vitamin C especially if the does are titrated to bowel tolerance at
the onset of early symptoms. Suggested dosage is 4-30 daily doses of
250mg-1500mg of vitamin C with bioflavinoids (powder in water).
Cold sores are often eliminated with large doses of vitamin C.
HYGEINE
Stop biting your nails.
Any reinnoculation of the virus could potentially worsen the MS condition.
Avoid contact between your fingers and your mouth.
Use kitchen utensils to eat.
Clean your fingernails with clean zone soap from
www.advancedhygieneproducts.com to reduce any chance of reinnoculation and
to reduce the chance of picking up other viruses which can lead to an MS
episode.
Avoid contact between your fingers and your eyes and nose for the same
reason.
Perform facial dips once or twice daily to prevent the development of
respiratory viruses.
EMOTIONAL HEALTH
Excess stress can lead to the excess release of the stress hormone cortisol.
Too much cortisol leads to an overproduction of bad eicosanoids like PGE2
and cytokines.
So learning basic relaxation methods and dealing with emotional distress
effectively is essential for the MS patient.
The negative thinking spiral is common to MS and depression. Sharing
problems and feelings with someone objective and various forms of therapy
(cognitive therapy etc) are recommended.
EFT (emotional freedom technique - a method for relieving negative emotions
is highly recommended.
These are covered in more detail in From Depression to Glorious Health (free
download www.geocities.com/glorioushealth ).
SLEEP
Sleep onset and quality can be poor in patients with MS and depression.
This is related to low levels of serotonin, the "feel good" hormone, which
is converted to melatonin the "sleep" hormone.
The good eicosanoid PGE1 is responsible for the release and uptake of
serotonin so increasing levels of good eicosanoids with diet and lifestyle
should help improve sleep.
Getting 15-30 minutes of bright sunshine in the morning and limiting
exposure to bright lights at night (red light is allright) can help improve
sleep patterns and quality of sleep.
Also consider supplementing with 3-6mg of melatonin a half hour to an hour
before bedtime to help with sleep onset and quality.
EXERCISE
Exercise can help reduce levels of the stress hormone cortisol and help
increase insulin sensitivity both of which can help increase the production
of good eicosanoids.
Repetitive exercise like walking or jogging also helps release the feel good
hormone serotonin.
Exercise and stretching in the morning can help improve sleep quality at
night.
Some strength building exercises (push ups, abdominal crunches and squats)
are recommended along with some aerobic exercise (walking, jogging,
dancing).
A total daily exercise time of 25-45 minutes is probably a healthy goal you
can work up to gradually.
Performing EFT (the method for relieving emotional distress) while
exercising is highly recommended.
CONCLUSION
Of all these therapies diet is probably the most effective at halting the
progression of MS and pharmaceutical grade fish oil is probably the most
effective at reversing the physical symptoms of the disease. Larger doses
of fish oil will probably be necessary if the other guidelines are not being
met.
Hygiene, emotional health, sleep and exercise should all be undetaken
seriously to achieve excellent long term health.
It should be noted that depression can be considered an early symptom of the
more serious symptoms of MS in the MS patient since both diseases are linked
to the bad eicosanoid PGE2.
So to be symptom free from MS you also need to eliminate any symptoms of
depression.
The book From depression to glorious health is highly recommended and free.
Website: www.geocities.com/glorioushealth
Sylvia
2004-02-15 17:10:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
I believe you can beat MS.
Let me introduce myself.
I am Andrew Cavanagh, a health writer from Australia.
I am a member of the Australasian Medical Writers association.
I've been involved in the health and fitness field for over 15 years as a
writer and consultant.
So, you are only a "health writer," not a doctor, not a scientist, not
a researcher.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
I would hate to give people false hope but it is my experience and the
experience of many other well credentialled, high profile leaders in the
health field that you can halt the progression of multiple sclerosis and
even reverse existing symptoms.
My notes on this disease are below.
You can also download the notes and the highly recommended free book From
Depression to Glorious Health from the website
www.geocities.com/glorioushealth
This book was originally written as a protocol for an MS sufferer and has
proved to be effective.
Then how come we haven't heard of this wonderful tome of knowledge
before?
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS
Multiple sclerosis is an autoimmune disease.
Basically your body's immume system begins attacking the myelin sheath of
your nerve endings particulary in your brain.
Correction: ONLY in your central nervous system, i.e., your brain and
spinal cord. Get the definitions right before you start spouting your
"knowledge."
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
The origninal cause of this confusion of the immune system is most likely a
Herpes virus (HHV6).
Oh, boy, here we go again. HHV& has been investigated as a trigger of
MS for many years. Most human beings have this virus in their bodies,
so OF COURSE you're going to find it in MS patients as well.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
It is possible other viruses could be similarly
responsible (possibly chickenpox and measles).
Possible, yes. Chicken pox and rubella (you didn't specify "which"
measles you're talking about, but I assume you meant rubella) have
also been investitgated for years.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
The herpes virus resides in the nerve base and moves to the nerve endings
initiating a herpes episode (blisters etc). MS episodes are usually
preceded by some form of viral attack and especially a herpes episode.
Sorry. I haven't had any form of herpes virus attack since I had
rubella when I was 5 years old. Viral infections can precede an MS
attack, but that's ALL kinds of viruses. The usual explanatioin: the
immune system is made more active by the viral attack, and more
activity in the immune system CAN lead to an MS attack, but not
always.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Herpes is spread by contact with blisters containing the active herpes
virus.
The most likely method that Herpes reaches your brain is through
1. Contact with the active herpes virus (blisters) through your fingers
2. Subsequent contact with the mouth.
Nail biting is especially implicated in MS (Which could explain the higher
incidence in women. More women bite their nails than men).
Huh? Nailbiting causes MS attacks! That's really the cat's meow!

And more women than men bite their nails? That's news to me; most
women are very conscious of the appearance of their hands and
fingernails, so thay are not inclined to do anything, like nailbiting,
that will make their hand unattactive.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Leading expert on advanced hygiene Dr Kenneth Seaton suggests that the
confusion of your immune system could be caused when protein in the
fingernails, mucus, dead skin and other proteins similar in constitution to
the myelin sheath in your nerves are ingested with the active herpes virus.
Sorry, never heard of this "expert" on hygiene. And his theory on MS
and fingernails does not sound plausible to me. As I said before,
there has been much reseaerch on MS and the herpes viruses, and there
has been no conclusion.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
If the virus takes up residence in the nerve endings of your brain then this
could lead to your immune system confusing the myelin sheath of the nerve
endings in your brain with the virus which has been ingested with these
proteins similar in constitution to the myelin sheath.
This is nothing new. MS and various viruses has been investigated
intensively over the years. No conclusion has been reached either
way.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
The overactive immune response in autoimmune diseases like MS is usually
related to bad eicosanoids called cytokines which regulate immune response.
Continuing inflammation, which can result in further and continued damage is
related to the bad eicosanoid PGE2 which has been found in elevated levels
in patients with MS and depression. (The two diseases are linked.
Depression is very common in MS patients).
We know that. Depression is usually related to the devastating
effects MS can have on people's lives. And MS itself can also cause
depression by attacking that area of the brain.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
TREATMENT.
FISH OIL
Large dosage of pharmaceutical grade fish oil is usually an effective
treatment for MS.
Recommeded dosage is around 2-4 teaspoons or 8-16 capsules of pharmaceutical
grade fish oil (5-10 grams of omega 3 fatty acids).
Doses are usually more effective if increased sympotmatically (if your
symptoms don't disappear increase the dose) and in severe cases a dosage as
high as 20grams of omega 3 fatty acids a day may be appropriate - twice the
maximum dose listed above.
Many people on this NG already take fish oil. Nobody has reported a
"cure" from it. Me, I won't touch it; fish and fish oil contain
MERCURY, a known neurotoxin, which is the last thing I need.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Dosage should be maintained indefinitely to ensure symptoms do not reappear.
Basically you take the minimum dose of fish oil required to be free of the
symptoms of MS and depression.
It is important to note that ceasing intake of fish oil is likely to result
in the return of MS symptoms.
IF it works. . .which no one has proven.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
In the absence of an AA/EPA test (which is recommended) you can get a
guideline on your dosage for pharmaceutical grade fish oil with a simple
cholesterol test you can have at your local doctor's.
Divide your triglycerides(TG) by HDL. You should aim for a TG/HDL ratio of
around 0.3 to 1. If it is more than 1.5 you probably need to take a higher
dose of fish oil. Higher than 2 and you definitely need more fish oil (also
look at diet, exercise etc.)
HOW FISH OIL WORKS
The fish oil can work in two basic ways.
The EPA in fish oil is the major building block of good eicosanoids and can
slow down your body's production of the bad eicosanoids like the cytokines
and PGE2. EPA can reduce levels of bad eicosanoids by inhibiting an enzyme
called delta 5 desaturase which is required for their production.
The DHA in fish oil helps repair nerve endings, and lay down new brain
tissue.
Um, excuse me, but I have not heard of ANYTHING that can "repair nerve
endings and lay down new brain tissue." I think I would have heard of
it, as this discovery would find its way to Stockholm for a Nobel
Prize in medicine.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Remember it is damage to the myelin sheath in the nerve endings that is the
primary cause of MS symptoms.
Wrong. MS is a disease of the central nervous system. The nerve
endings in our bodies are quite functional; it's just that the myelin
sheaths in the brain and spinal cord are damaged by MS.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
DIET
The original and very effective Swank diet for MS was based on fish and eggs
as protein sources. No milk or dairy. No red meat. No wheat products or
sugar. Very similar to a zone diet.
Over a 35 year period (an impressive length of time for any study) 95% of
patients on the Swank diet never progressed to any form of disability.
You might tell this to Dr. Swank. He has based the diet on low FAT
consumption, and he has recently endorsed a diet that DOES contain
wheat products, the John MacDougal diet. And the MacDougal diet does
NOT include fish or eggs; it is a vegan diet with NO animal products.

And I don't know where you got that "95% of patientts on the Swank
diet" statistic; I have never heard of it.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
I believe a zone diet which incorporates the elimination of dairy, wheat,
sugar and most red meat not only coincides with a Swank diet but should be
more effective by reducing levels of the bad eicosanoids implicated in MS
(the cytokines and PGE2 in particular).
The book From Depression to Glorious Health which you can dowload free at
www.geocities.com/glorioushealth describes a zone type diet designed for MS
and depression patients.
dairy - the peptides in milk have been found to be molecular mimics of self
antigens in myelin
wheat products and sugar linked to cadidas (see below)
limits red meat and egg yolks (egg yolks, red meat and especially the fat in
red meat are high in arachadonic acid the building block of bad eicosanoids)
Maybe yes, maybe no. The jury is still out on MS and diet.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
CANDIDAS
Candidas is common in MS patients (often due to courses of antibiotics taken
for viruses like herpes) so the elimination of sugar and wheat which tend to
feed this bacteria and taking a daily dose of an acidophilus/bifidus capsule
between meals should help restore intestinal flora.
Anyone on a course of antibiotics should worry about restoring useful
intestinal bacteria; my doctor told me to eat yogurt.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
VITAMIN C
The herpes virus (and many other viruses) can respond to large, frequent
doses of vitamin C especially if the does are titrated to bowel tolerance at
the onset of early symptoms. Suggested dosage is 4-30 daily doses of
250mg-1500mg of vitamin C with bioflavinoids (powder in water).
Cold sores are often eliminated with large doses of vitamin C.
Maybe yes, maybe no. I was told to limit my intake of Vitamin C
because it activates the immune system, the last thing I need.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
HYGEINE
Stop biting your nails.
NEVER did, even as a child.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Any reinnoculation of the virus could potentially worsen the MS condition.
Avoid contact between your fingers and your mouth.
Use kitchen utensils to eat.
Sounds like what kids are told. . .keep your hands away from your face
and don't est with your fingers! Does my Mom get any prizes for this
advice?
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Clean your fingernails with clean zone soap from
www.advancedhygieneproducts.com to reduce any chance of reinnoculation and
to reduce the chance of picking up other viruses which can lead to an MS
episode.
I don't use any "antibacterial" soap. Funny you should mention this;
one theory of MS is that we are TOO clean, and this makes our immune
systems more active.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Avoid contact between your fingers and your eyes and nose for the same
reason.
Perform facial dips once or twice daily to prevent the development of
respiratory viruses.
EMOTIONAL HEALTH
Excess stress can lead to the excess release of the stress hormone cortisol.
Too much cortisol leads to an overproduction of bad eicosanoids like PGE2
and cytokines.
So learning basic relaxation methods and dealing with emotional distress
effectively is essential for the MS patient.
We know that; stress is poison for MS patients.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
The negative thinking spiral is common to MS and depression. Sharing
problems and feelings with someone objective and various forms of therapy
(cognitive therapy etc) are recommended.
Agreed. It's hard NOT to get depressed when your life has changed for
the worse.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
EFT (emotional freedom technique - a method for relieving negative emotions
is highly recommended.
These are covered in more detail in From Depression to Glorious Health (free
download www.geocities.com/glorioushealth ).
I'd say use a an antidepressant drug; those work on the chemistry in
your brain. None of these "techniques," which end up blaming the
patient for any failures.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
SLEEP
Sleep onset and quality can be poor in patients with MS and depression.
This is related to low levels of serotonin, the "feel good" hormone, which
is converted to melatonin the "sleep" hormone.
The good eicosanoid PGE1 is responsible for the release and uptake of
serotonin so increasing levels of good eicosanoids with diet and lifestyle
should help improve sleep.
Or you could take an antidepressant which increases the level of
serotonin in your brain.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Getting 15-30 minutes of bright sunshine in the morning and limiting
exposure to bright lights at night (red light is allright) can help improve
sleep patterns and quality of sleep.
Also consider supplementing with 3-6mg of melatonin a half hour to an hour
before bedtime to help with sleep onset and quality.
EXERCISE
Exercise can help reduce levels of the stress hormone cortisol and help
increase insulin sensitivity both of which can help increase the production
of good eicosanoids.
Repetitive exercise like walking or jogging also helps release the feel good
hormone serotonin.
Exercise and stretching in the morning can help improve sleep quality at
night.
Some strength building exercises (push ups, abdominal crunches and squats)
are recommended along with some aerobic exercise (walking, jogging,
dancing).
A total daily exercise time of 25-45 minutes is probably a healthy goal you
can work up to gradually.
Performing EFT (the method for relieving emotional distress) while
exercising is highly recommended.
We have known about the benefits of regular exercise for years. So
what's new?
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
CONCLUSION
Of all these therapies diet is probably the most effective at halting the
progression of MS and pharmaceutical grade fish oil is probably the most
effective at reversing the physical symptoms of the disease. Larger doses
of fish oil will probably be necessary if the other guidelines are not being
met.
Sorry, you'll have to provide more research on this; the diet debate
has gone on for decades.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
Hygiene, emotional health, sleep and exercise should all be undetaken
seriously to achieve excellent long term health.
Yes, Mom.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
It should be noted that depression can be considered an early symptom of the
more serious symptoms of MS in the MS patient since both diseases are linked
to the bad eicosanoid PGE2.
Wrong. MS can strike at any time; some of us were in the prime of our
lives and very happy when it hit. I know I was.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
So to be symptom free from MS you also need to eliminate any symptoms of
depression.
The book From depression to glorious health is highly recommended and free.
Website: www.geocities.com/glorioushealth
So that's your source on all this "knowledge." Sorry, but I could
drive a freight train through the holes in your "theories."

Sorry, pal. Close, but no cigar.

Sylvia
Andrewcavanagh
2004-02-21 06:09:38 UTC
Permalink
Thank you for your reply.

I think I should cover the issue of fish oil and mercury contamination.

Before I do that I should make it perfectly clear that I do not, nor will I ever, make any commission from the sale of health products.

The reason I suggest pharmaceutical grade fish oil is because to achieve that standard it must be independently tested and receive a certificate of certification.
You can view these certificates at www.nutrasource.ca
It is an essential point you make about contamination.

To make one litre of pharmaceutical grade fish oil takes around 100 litres of the standard health food grade fish oil you buy in your local health food store.

Since mercury could also be implicated in MS you certainly wouldn't want to risk ingesting mercury in your fish oil.
Certified pharmaceutical grade fish oil has a contamination level of less than 10ppb. Basically insignificant levels.

I really suggest you look into fish oil.
There are enough studies to suggest it's effectiveness in MS simply do a search at www.pubmed.com for fish oil MS.

I really hope this helps and I wish you all the health in the world and send you only love.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
Nice But Dim
2004-02-23 01:18:25 UTC
Permalink
Andrew perhaps the fact that you "PRESCRIBE" your cure
willy nilly without a single thought of the damage you
may be doing is SIGNIFICANT.

Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL

Stay Well

NBD

WHEN Dylan Thomas wandered down Charlotte Street in the West End of
London he was heading for the Fitz — the Fitzroy Tavern — one of his
favourite watering holes.
Charlotte Street was then home to a certain raffish element and there
were several restaurants to cater for them. It still has restaurants
but they have gone upmarket, and none more so than the two
Michelin-starred Pied à Terre.

The news this week is that Shane Osborn, the head chef, is seriously
allergic to fish, and to a lesser extent to some other foods. In his
case the allergy is so severe that it induces anaphylaxis and is
therefore potentially fatal. Everywhere he goes, so does a loaded
syringe of adrenaline ready for immediate injection at the first hint
of trouble. Another loaded syringe is kept in the restaurant’s
kitchen, and for this particular chef it is as important to his life
as olive oil is to the life of the restaurant.

There is always some confusion about food intolerance and food
allergy. Food intolerance is a lesser problem. For instance, many
people are intolerant of lactose and unable to consume dairy produce,
but they are not allergic to it. It may cause problems with the guts
but is not life-threatening.

Others use the term to describe something no more than a feeling of
revulsion which may be induced by the taste of certain foods.
Sometimes this reaction dates from a childhood experience.

Anaphylaxis is a killer. It may be induced by bee or wasp stings and
other common allergens, but if triggered in the dining room rather
than at a picnic, the most likely causes are nuts or fish.

Nut allergies have become well known and many are precipitated by an
allergy to peanuts. There is often a family history of asthma, eczema
or other allergies. For this reason, where there is any evidence that
fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters or more distant relatives have had
allergies, children should not have peanut butter for the first three
years of their lives.

Even when older, the children — or their parents — must be aware of
the first symptoms of allergy, such as swelling, or even a tightness
around the lips or throat, difficulty in breathing or swallowing or a
rash after taking nuts. These symptoms are a red warning light. To
disregard it and continue to have any contact with peanuts — or, if
one is wise, any form of nut — is foolhardy.

Last week my taxi driver told me that he could no longer have
chocolate because every time he had nut choc- olate for lunch his lips
and gums swelled and he didn’t feel well.

He had little idea that it wasn’t the chocolate to which he was
allergic but the nuts, and that he should not eat nuts, use cooking
utensils that have cooked nuts, handle nuts, or have other foods with
nut oil in them. I think he wondered what sort of eccentric doctor he
had as his passenger, but if you read The Times, Len, I meant it.

Osborn’s allergies, based on fish, were precipitated by preparing
scallops and lobsters and have now extended to include frogs’ legs,
mushrooms and, he believes, red wine. He has to wear surgical gloves
even to handle fish (I wouldn’t take the risk, as these gloves are
easily penetrated or cut, as any surgeon will tell you).



On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:09:38 -0600, "Andrewcavanagh"
Post by Andrewcavanagh
Thank you for your reply.
I think I should cover the issue of fish oil and mercury contamination.
Before I do that I should make it perfectly clear that I do not, nor will I ever, make any commission from the sale of health products.
The reason I suggest pharmaceutical grade fish oil is because to achieve that standard it must be independently tested and receive a certificate of certification.
You can view these certificates at www.nutrasource.ca
It is an essential point you make about contamination.
To make one litre of pharmaceutical grade fish oil takes around 100 litres of the standard health food grade fish oil you buy in your local health food store.
Since mercury could also be implicated in MS you certainly wouldn't want to risk ingesting mercury in your fish oil.
Certified pharmaceutical grade fish oil has a contamination level of less than 10ppb. Basically insignificant levels.
I really suggest you look into fish oil.
There are enough studies to suggest it's effectiveness in MS simply do a search at www.pubmed.com for fish oil MS.
I really hope this helps and I wish you all the health in the world and send you only love.
Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
Glen Appleby
2004-02-23 08:53:25 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!

Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.

Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
--
"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby ***@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
d***@cheetah.net
2004-02-23 16:00:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!
Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.
Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
Darwanize? What's that?

Donn
CW
2004-02-23 16:09:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!
Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.
Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
Darwanize? What's that?
Donn
You should put a metal ornament on the back of your vehicle - a fish with
feet.

CW
d***@cheetah.net
2004-02-23 16:16:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by CW
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!
Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.
Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
Darwanize? What's that?
Donn
You should put a metal ornament on the back of your vehicle - a fish with
feet.
CW
Why?

Donn
CW
2004-02-23 16:29:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by CW
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!
Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.
Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
Darwanize? What's that?
Donn
You should put a metal ornament on the back of your vehicle - a fish with
feet.
CW
Why?
Donn
OKOKOK. It's a takeoff on the fish ornaments with the word "Jesus" on them.
The fish with feet ornaments have "Darwin" on them.

There are also ornaments of fish in a burkha and fish with a yarmulka

CW
d***@cheetah.net
2004-02-23 16:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by CW
Post by CW
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!
Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.
Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
Darwanize? What's that?
Donn
You should put a metal ornament on the back of your vehicle - a fish with
feet.
CW
Why?
Donn
OKOKOK. It's a takeoff on the fish ornaments with the word "Jesus" on them.
The fish with feet ornaments have "Darwin" on them.
There are also ornaments of fish in a burkha and fish with a yarmulka
CW
So you seem to imply, Glen should have spelled
Darwanize with a "i," as in Darwinize, as related
to Darwinian or Darwinism? The fish with the
yarmulke I can understand. Fish need to cover
their heads when walking about in order to avoid
a sun stroke. The fish with feet is not to far off
from Tick's story about a 300 pound catfish. In
that case the fish would wear a Stetson and boots.
Of course, that;s not Darwinian, it's Texas. The
burkha is quite another thing. It's used for ugly
fish.

Donn
Glen Appleby
2004-02-23 17:00:07 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:53:01 -0800, in
Post by d***@cheetah.net
So you seem to imply, Glen should have spelled
Darwanize with a "i," as in Darwinize, as related
to Darwinian or Darwinism?
Are you suggesting that I might *misspell* something?

ME? The World's Second Worst Speller? (And doomed to second
place until my spelling mentor, Dan Quayle, dies)

--
"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby ***@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
d***@cheetah.net
2004-02-23 17:19:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:53:01 -0800, in
Post by d***@cheetah.net
So you seem to imply, Glen should have spelled
Darwanize with a "i," as in Darwinize, as related
to Darwinian or Darwinism?
Are you suggesting that I might *misspell* something?
ME? The World's Second Worst Speller? (And doomed to second
place until my spelling mentor, Dan Quayle, dies)
Heaven forbid that I would imply that you
were the second worst speller in the world.
Third or fourth, maybe. But there are quite
a few tied for second. While Danny couldn't
spell potato correctly, at least his potato
only had i's.

Donn
Glen Appleby
2004-02-24 16:17:40 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:19:03 -0800, in
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by Glen Appleby
Are you suggesting that I might *misspell* something?
ME? The World's Second Worst Speller? (And doomed to second
place until my spelling mentor, Dan Quayle, dies)
Heaven forbid that I would imply that you
were the second worst speller in the world.
Third or fourth, maybe. But there are quite
a few tied for second.
"Tied", in this case, suggests a *distant* second place.
Remember that I spent over 30 years working in engineering and
honing my ... craft.
Post by d***@cheetah.net
While Danny couldn't
spell potato correctly, at least his potato
only had i's.
But the eyes on potatoes will try to grow vines.

--
"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby ***@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
melodynamic
2004-02-23 21:05:06 UTC
Permalink
ROFL!!!!!
sounds fishy to me...

luv&stuff,
Denise
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by CW
Post by CW
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!
Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.
Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
Darwanize? What's that?
Donn
You should put a metal ornament on the back of your vehicle - a fish with
feet.
CW
Why?
Donn
OKOKOK. It's a takeoff on the fish ornaments with the word "Jesus" on them.
The fish with feet ornaments have "Darwin" on them.
There are also ornaments of fish in a burkha and fish with a yarmulka
CW
So you seem to imply, Glen should have spelled
Darwanize with a "i," as in Darwinize, as related
to Darwinian or Darwinism? The fish with the
yarmulke I can understand. Fish need to cover
their heads when walking about in order to avoid
a sun stroke. The fish with feet is not to far off
from Tick's story about a 300 pound catfish. In
that case the fish would wear a Stetson and boots.
Of course, that;s not Darwinian, it's Texas. The
burkha is quite another thing. It's used for ugly
fish.
Donn
d***@cheetah.net
2004-02-23 21:21:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by melodynamic
ROFL!!!!!
sounds fishy to me...
luv&stuff,
Denise
I see you're tipping the scales in your favor,

Donn
melodynamic
2004-02-23 21:32:32 UTC
Permalink
Groooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaan.... My mind - just for the halibut - is now
floundering in puns.... You got me hooked.
luv&stuff,
Denise
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by melodynamic
ROFL!!!!!
sounds fishy to me...
luv&stuff,
Denise
I see you're tipping the scales in your favor,
Donn
d***@cheetah.net
2004-02-23 23:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by melodynamic
Groooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaan.... My mind - just for the halibut - is now
floundering in puns.... You got me hooked.
luv&stuff,
Denise
You will need swim fins while the fish is already
equipped with standard sets. However, you have the
fish beat if you don't swallow anything hook, line
and sinker.

Donn
Nice But Dim
2004-02-23 18:04:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by CW
Post by CW
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!
Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.
Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
Darwanize? What's that?
Donn
You should put a metal ornament on the back of your vehicle - a fish with
feet.
CW
Why?
Donn
OKOKOK. It's a takeoff on the fish ornaments with the word "Jesus" on them.
The fish with feet ornaments have "Darwin" on them.
There are also ornaments of fish in a burkha and fish with a yarmulka
CW
How can you tell there is a fish in the burkha ?

Just interested...LOL

NBD
d***@cheetah.net
2004-02-23 18:56:30 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:04:01 GMT, Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Post by CW
Post by CW
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!
Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.
Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
Darwanize? What's that?
Donn
You should put a metal ornament on the back of your vehicle - a fish with
feet.
CW
Why?
Donn
OKOKOK. It's a takeoff on the fish ornaments with the word "Jesus" on them.
The fish with feet ornaments have "Darwin" on them.
There are also ornaments of fish in a burkha and fish with a yarmulka
CW
How can you tell there is a fish in the burkha ?
Just interested...LOL
NBD
On hot day, it's the odor that gives them away.

Donn
Glen Appleby
2004-02-23 16:56:24 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:00:24 -0800, in
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!
Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.
Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
Darwanize? What's that?
Aw, geeze ... I shouldn't have said that.

See, it is what some conservative jerks say about the drunks (as
an example). When they drink and drive, instead of killing
others, if they just kill themself in an accident. Then, what
Unka Darwin said about the extinction of a species would come a
bit closer (in this case, drunks).

--
"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby ***@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
d***@cheetah.net
2004-02-23 17:08:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:00:24 -0800, in
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!
Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.
Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
Darwanize? What's that?
Aw, geeze ... I shouldn't have said that.
See, it is what some conservative jerks say about the drunks (as
an example). When they drink and drive, instead of killing
others, if they just kill themself in an accident. Then, what
Unka Darwin said about the extinction of a species would come a
bit closer (in this case, drunks).
"Unka" Darwin, or as we called him, Charlie,
opined that man was a descendant from apes.
Most assuredly, we have ascended, however,
not all at once.

Donn
Glen Appleby
2004-02-24 16:23:14 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 09:08:53 -0800, in
Post by d***@cheetah.net
"Unka" Darwin, or as we called him, Charlie,
opined that man was a descendant from apes.
Most assuredly, we have ascended, however,
not all at once.
My wife worked, some years ago, at the Gorilla Foundation in
Woodside, Ca, with Koko and Michael (recently deceased), the two
gorillas that communicate using sign language.

After hearing, from her, some of what the gorillas did, I would
suggest that mankind, in many cases, *descended* from apes, not
ascended.

--
"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby ***@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Nice But Dim
2004-02-23 18:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@cheetah.net
Post by Glen Appleby
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:25 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Sadly the following article also drops poop on Glens
Chocolate cure....LOL
HEY! It was an allergy to the NUTS, not to the chocolate!
Besides, people who claim to be allergic to chocolate should
darwanize themselves, so that the rest of us need not fear.
Glen (purveyor of fine chocolate treatments) Appleby
Darwanize? What's that?
Donn
Its a rather sad Darwinization, a tad wan in fact !

Hope it helps

NBD
laura lauth
2004-02-15 17:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Andrew Cavanagh <***@bigpond.com> cleared that pesky dry throat,
glanced nervously around, and (and I am not making this up) declared ;
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
TREATMENT.
FISH OIL
Large dosage of pharmaceutical grade fish oil is usually an effective
treatment for MS.
Recommeded dosage is around 2-4 teaspoons or 8-16 capsules of pharmaceutical
grade fish oil (5-10 grams of omega 3 fatty acids).
Doses are usually more effective if increased sympotmatically (if your
symptoms don't disappear increase the dose) and in severe cases a dosage as
high as 20grams of omega 3 fatty acids a day may be appropriate - twice the
maximum dose listed above.
Andrew,
I use snake oil in about that amount.
I've had marvellous results,too!
Lo
Joan Carter
2004-02-15 18:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by laura lauth
glanced nervously around, and (and I am not making this up) declared ;
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
TREATMENT.
FISH OIL
Large dosage of pharmaceutical grade fish oil is usually an effective
treatment for MS.
Recommeded dosage is around 2-4 teaspoons or 8-16 capsules of pharmaceutical
grade fish oil (5-10 grams of omega 3 fatty acids).
Doses are usually more effective if increased sympotmatically (if your
symptoms don't disappear increase the dose) and in severe cases a dosage as
high as 20grams of omega 3 fatty acids a day may be appropriate - twice the
maximum dose listed above.
Andrew,
I use snake oil in about that amount.
I've had marvellous results,too!
Lo
Laura, you rock! ROFL

---
Joan
Andrewcavanagh
2004-02-21 06:39:24 UTC
Permalink
It really is funny.
What's not so funny is MS.
I read about 20 medical journals a week.
I have seen the studies about MS and fish oil.
I have also looked for other medicinal options and like you the search seems to come up short.

Again I suggest you go to www.pubmed.com and do your own search.

I mean this in kindness.
It really would be a shame if you didn't look into a therapy that has measurable positive effect on MS.

Again I don't make any profit or commission from the sale of any health products.

I understand your scepticism but there really are people in the world who are not primarily motivated by money.

I wish you the best of health and honestly hope I haven't offended you.
I send you kindness and love.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
Joan Carter
2004-02-21 16:58:57 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:39:24 -0600, "Andrewcavanagh"
Post by Andrewcavanagh
I send you kindness and love.
Sorry, Andrew, this sounds too much like our non-favourite troll, who claims he
loves us too. That always sounds suspect to me.

---
Joan
Laura
2004-02-21 22:21:59 UTC
Permalink
You know..I was just getting the same feeling..
Do I have start giving Andrew kisses and telling him I still love him too
now? Hmm.....
--
Laura
Post by Joan Carter
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:39:24 -0600, "Andrewcavanagh"
Post by Andrewcavanagh
I send you kindness and love.
Sorry, Andrew, this sounds too much like our non-favourite troll, who claims he
loves us too. That always sounds suspect to me.
---
Joan
Gaylan
2004-02-22 06:15:27 UTC
Permalink
My great grandmother was a Cavanagh. <g>

Gaylan
Post by Laura
You know..I was just getting the same feeling..
Do I have start giving Andrew kisses and telling him I still love him too
now? Hmm.....
--
Laura
Post by Joan Carter
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:39:24 -0600, "Andrewcavanagh"
Post by Andrewcavanagh
I send you kindness and love.
Sorry, Andrew, this sounds too much like our non-favourite troll, who
claims he
Post by Joan Carter
loves us too. That always sounds suspect to me.
---
Joan
Laura
2004-02-22 22:40:27 UTC
Permalink
snertle..I slept with a cavanaugh..he sold me a nice car also..91 camaro
convertible brand new..
--
Laura

GAYLAN FOR PRESIDENT!
Post by Gaylan
My great grandmother was a Cavanagh. <g>
Gaylan
Post by Laura
You know..I was just getting the same feeling..
Do I have start giving Andrew kisses and telling him I still love him too
now? Hmm.....
--
Laura
Post by Joan Carter
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:39:24 -0600, "Andrewcavanagh"
Post by Andrewcavanagh
I send you kindness and love.
Sorry, Andrew, this sounds too much like our non-favourite troll, who
claims he
Post by Joan Carter
loves us too. That always sounds suspect to me.
---
Joan
Nice But Dim
2004-02-16 22:02:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by laura lauth
glanced nervously around, and (and I am not making this up) declared ;
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
TREATMENT.
FISH OIL
Large dosage of pharmaceutical grade fish oil is usually an effective
treatment for MS.
Recommeded dosage is around 2-4 teaspoons or 8-16 capsules of pharmaceutical
grade fish oil (5-10 grams of omega 3 fatty acids).
Doses are usually more effective if increased sympotmatically (if your
symptoms don't disappear increase the dose) and in severe cases a dosage as
high as 20grams of omega 3 fatty acids a day may be appropriate - twice the
maximum dose listed above.
Andrew,
I use snake oil in about that amount.
I've had marvellous results,too!
Lo
Laura you are funny.

However we have another loony in the group flogging Flavanoids
and OPC's to the trusting, what with that and the fish oil man I am
buying shares in toilet tissue companies...LOL

NBD
Rob Duncan
2004-02-16 22:53:41 UTC
Permalink
"Nice But Dim"
Post by Nice But Dim
However we have another loony in the group flogging Flavanoids
and OPC's to the trusting, what with that and the fish oil man I am
buying shares in toilet tissue companies...LOL
NBD
Simply because you cant understand the abstracts he posts doesnt mean he is
incorrect... it means you dont understand the abstracts he posts. I would
suggest informing yourself better before resorting to insults. Your
inability to understand the science behind his recomendations may be to your
detriment. I hope for you that you will educate yourself on the matter.


Rob
Nice But Dim
2004-02-17 09:27:25 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:53:41 -0800, "Rob Duncan"
Post by Rob Duncan
"Nice But Dim"
Post by Nice But Dim
However we have another loony in the group flogging Flavanoids
and OPC's to the trusting, what with that and the fish oil man I am
buying shares in toilet tissue companies...LOL
NBD
Simply because you cant understand the abstracts he posts doesnt mean he is
incorrect... it means you dont understand the abstracts he posts. I would
suggest informing yourself better before resorting to insults. Your
inability to understand the science behind his recomendations may be to your
detriment. I hope for you that you will educate yourself on the matter.
Rob
Sigh...

Rob I am a doctor and have a degree in biochemistry
I spent 6 years working for the NHS in the UK and then
almost a lifetime working for Merck and a number of other
medical companies... Woo Hoo my CV. I have had MS
for 13 years now.

I have also researched and personally TRIED OPC's.

The flavanoids "con" trick is a well known one,
it sounds so plausible and it is very easy for the MLM
pariahs to sell to the desperate and unwary.

Its cheap its easy to sell in little bottles and it is unlikely
to kill the user so therefore will not make MAJOR headlines.

The TOTAL lack of any respectable study on
something which has supposedly been known about
for so long is enough EVIDENCE that it is BS. I personally
took OPC's for 2 years 13 years ago. All they ever did was
cost me money and give me a gastric ulcer.

Quite why your kneejerk reaction was to try the
"inform yourself dumbo" reply when you had no
background on me, leads me to believe you are
also planning on going into the pariah business
of flogging this junk.

I am more than happy to "SELL" you loads of
"serious" scientific piles of BS on why you should be

a. chelated,
b. why iron did it,
c. why your amalgams are guilty.
d. why you would be fit and healthy had
diet coke and Aspartame never existed.
e. why tall people need HGH
f. how to stop DHEA playing fatboy games
g. why you should fill your pants with
blue green algae.

The bottom line is that the crud the guy has been posting

IS NOT science.

IT IS a confidence trick to sell CRAP.

Sadly people like you help him get away with it.

You really need to spend a few hours cruising around
sites such as.

www.quackwatch.org

In fact the site "author" Stephen Barret has some
very valid points to make about the whole anti-oxidant
scam himself.


Stay Well

NBD

PS Just off to get those shares in the toilet tissue...
renewable of course...<VBG>
jack n dalton
2004-02-17 09:55:44 UTC
Permalink
There goes all that money I make in commissions. It would be so nice to have
another expert on the circuit. I find his attitude a little too negative to
be anywhere near objective. I regret to say that I too was quite a skeptic
until quite recently myself. But these recent medical studies have
completely turned me around. I think his opinion was based upon much earlier
studies. He is a bit over to top in his skepticism. It is a shame he just
cannot just make a negative comment without implying a negative motive on my
part. I personally really do not give a damn what choices other people make
about how they live their lives. I post my findings here because I feel
obligated to share this info with the worldwide MS community. It helps me
organize my thoughts and I welcome all comments. It would be nice if they
were "on topic" but this guy is way off the target.

Jack N Dalton

P.S. I do get upset when someone discourages a newly diagnosed person from
getting the best medical treatment possible.
Post by Nice But Dim
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:53:41 -0800, "Rob Duncan"
Post by Rob Duncan
"Nice But Dim"
Post by Nice But Dim
However we have another loony in the group flogging Flavanoids
and OPC's to the trusting, what with that and the fish oil man I am
buying shares in toilet tissue companies...LOL
NBD
Simply because you cant understand the abstracts he posts doesnt mean he is
incorrect... it means you dont understand the abstracts he posts. I would
suggest informing yourself better before resorting to insults. Your
inability to understand the science behind his recomendations may be to your
detriment. I hope for you that you will educate yourself on the matter.
Rob
Sigh...
Rob I am a doctor and have a degree in biochemistry
I spent 6 years working for the NHS in the UK and then
almost a lifetime working for Merck and a number of other
medical companies... Woo Hoo my CV. I have had MS
for 13 years now.
I have also researched and personally TRIED OPC's.
The flavanoids "con" trick is a well known one,
it sounds so plausible and it is very easy for the MLM
pariahs to sell to the desperate and unwary.
Its cheap its easy to sell in little bottles and it is unlikely
to kill the user so therefore will not make MAJOR headlines.
The TOTAL lack of any respectable study on
something which has supposedly been known about
for so long is enough EVIDENCE that it is BS. I personally
took OPC's for 2 years 13 years ago. All they ever did was
cost me money and give me a gastric ulcer.
Quite why your kneejerk reaction was to try the
"inform yourself dumbo" reply when you had no
background on me, leads me to believe you are
also planning on going into the pariah business
of flogging this junk.
I am more than happy to "SELL" you loads of
"serious" scientific piles of BS on why you should be
a. chelated,
b. why iron did it,
c. why your amalgams are guilty.
d. why you would be fit and healthy had
diet coke and Aspartame never existed.
e. why tall people need HGH
f. how to stop DHEA playing fatboy games
g. why you should fill your pants with
blue green algae.
The bottom line is that the crud the guy has been posting
IS NOT science.
IT IS a confidence trick to sell CRAP.
Sadly people like you help him get away with it.
You really need to spend a few hours cruising around
sites such as.
www.quackwatch.org
In fact the site "author" Stephen Barret has some
very valid points to make about the whole anti-oxidant
scam himself.
Stay Well
NBD
PS Just off to get those shares in the toilet tissue...
renewable of course...<VBG>
Nice But Dim
2004-02-17 17:22:01 UTC
Permalink
Three disturbing bits to this post really.

1. Its NOT free is it....?
You expect some sucker to cough up loadsa money
to try miracle cure XYZ

2. My opinion based on MUCH earlier studies......PIMPL
So having tried it 13 years ago I GAVE UP trying and just
festered away. The info you have provided is the SAME
tired BS that was there 13 years ago, doubtless you have
some pseudo scientific journal published online in 2004
to point to BUT there is NO NEW SCIENCE in what you
propose. I do virtually nothing else now but look at all
new research, yours is BOGUS.
Post by jack n dalton
I do get upset when someone discourages a newly diagnosed person from
getting the best medical treatment possible.
WHO EXACTLY is deciding the best treatment for this poor newly
diagnosed ginuea pig ???

OH YOU ARE......RASSSSSSSP !!!!!

Stay Well

NBD

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:55:44 GMT, "jack n dalton"
Post by jack n dalton
There goes all that money I make in commissions. It would be so nice to have
another expert on the circuit. I find his attitude a little too negative to
be anywhere near objective. I regret to say that I too was quite a skeptic
until quite recently myself. But these recent medical studies have
completely turned me around. I think his opinion was based upon much earlier
studies. He is a bit over to top in his skepticism. It is a shame he just
cannot just make a negative comment without implying a negative motive on my
part. I personally really do not give a damn what choices other people make
about how they live their lives. I post my findings here because I feel
obligated to share this info with the worldwide MS community. It helps me
organize my thoughts and I welcome all comments. It would be nice if they
were "on topic" but this guy is way off the target.
Jack N Dalton
P.S. I do get upset when someone discourages a newly diagnosed person from
getting the best medical treatment possible.
Post by Nice But Dim
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:53:41 -0800, "Rob Duncan"
Post by Rob Duncan
"Nice But Dim"
Post by Nice But Dim
However we have another loony in the group flogging Flavanoids
and OPC's to the trusting, what with that and the fish oil man I am
buying shares in toilet tissue companies...LOL
NBD
Simply because you cant understand the abstracts he posts doesnt mean he
is
Post by Nice But Dim
Post by Rob Duncan
incorrect... it means you dont understand the abstracts he posts. I
would
Post by Nice But Dim
Post by Rob Duncan
suggest informing yourself better before resorting to insults. Your
inability to understand the science behind his recomendations may be to
your
Post by Nice But Dim
Post by Rob Duncan
detriment. I hope for you that you will educate yourself on the matter.
Rob
Sigh...
Rob I am a doctor and have a degree in biochemistry
I spent 6 years working for the NHS in the UK and then
almost a lifetime working for Merck and a number of other
medical companies... Woo Hoo my CV. I have had MS
for 13 years now.
I have also researched and personally TRIED OPC's.
The flavanoids "con" trick is a well known one,
it sounds so plausible and it is very easy for the MLM
pariahs to sell to the desperate and unwary.
Its cheap its easy to sell in little bottles and it is unlikely
to kill the user so therefore will not make MAJOR headlines.
The TOTAL lack of any respectable study on
something which has supposedly been known about
for so long is enough EVIDENCE that it is BS. I personally
took OPC's for 2 years 13 years ago. All they ever did was
cost me money and give me a gastric ulcer.
Quite why your kneejerk reaction was to try the
"inform yourself dumbo" reply when you had no
background on me, leads me to believe you are
also planning on going into the pariah business
of flogging this junk.
I am more than happy to "SELL" you loads of
"serious" scientific piles of BS on why you should be
a. chelated,
b. why iron did it,
c. why your amalgams are guilty.
d. why you would be fit and healthy had
diet coke and Aspartame never existed.
e. why tall people need HGH
f. how to stop DHEA playing fatboy games
g. why you should fill your pants with
blue green algae.
The bottom line is that the crud the guy has been posting
IS NOT science.
IT IS a confidence trick to sell CRAP.
Sadly people like you help him get away with it.
You really need to spend a few hours cruising around
sites such as.
www.quackwatch.org
In fact the site "author" Stephen Barret has some
very valid points to make about the whole anti-oxidant
scam himself.
Stay Well
NBD
PS Just off to get those shares in the toilet tissue...
renewable of course...<VBG>
jack n dalton
2004-02-17 19:40:16 UTC
Permalink
NDB

Your low opinion of current medical studies is unfounded. Many describe how
MS progresses and how simple supplements and foods can have a positive
effect on the course of the disease. Because MS may be a "two stage" disease
it may be that only those with the 1st stage inflammatory processes can
benefit most from these things. This is still an unknown area. I would be
glad to send you some of the articles from the better medical journals. It
is difficult to post them here because they are in PDF Acrobat format and
many news providers only allow "pure text" post to show up in their system.
I may post them here but I know that many will never be able to read it or
even have it showup at all. Remember that Adobe Acrobat 5.0 READER is FREE
and most journal articles use this format. The graphics and color
presentations really go a long way to making a lot of this stuff
understandable. I have no medical training but I was married for 25 years to
a Physical Therapist. I inherited a good medical library and have seen the
Miracle of full and partial recovery from some terrible injury and diseases.

The new area of controlling MMPs has opened to door to greatly possibly
stopping the damage to the nervous system and enhancing current therapies..
I invite you go to http://www.pubmed.gov and do some research on MMPs for a
start. I hope you can join us.

Jack N Dalton
Nice But Dim
2004-02-20 23:17:38 UTC
Permalink
Jack,

Thank you for your reply.

My opinion of "true" correctly performed
medical studies with blind trialing and subsequent
publication of results in acknowledged and certified
literature is not low. Far from it.

As for the pseudo science that you "pretend / mislead"
people into believing I find it makes me want to vomit.

As for your attempts at trying to explain to me what
MS is, I think I will rely on my own conclusions and those of the
people I have grown to trust whilst researching this disease for 13
years. Such people as Paul Jones, Jean Sumption, & Chris Jones
were all beginners too back 10 years ago. They "still" are but they
provide a truely helpful informed service to people with MS.

AND they don't want to flog me a thing !

I still have access to "all" major medical journals, and maintain my
Bodelian Library card as well as my medical library card at the
University of Westminster. I have the sad task of downloading new
updates to Adobe Acrobat 6 on an almost weekly basis as the damn
thing wasn't finished when Adobe released it. It does however
work when it comes to reading PDF docs.

I have a simple and easy to understand rule when anybody
approaches me with an MS "cure".

Have they asked me for money first ?

If they have then my reply (closed minded or not) is
generally two words the second one being OFF.

Stay Well

NBD

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:40:16 GMT, "jack n dalton"
Post by jack n dalton
NDB
Your low opinion of current medical studies is unfounded. Many describe how
MS progresses and how simple supplements and foods can have a positive
effect on the course of the disease. Because MS may be a "two stage" disease
it may be that only those with the 1st stage inflammatory processes can
benefit most from these things. This is still an unknown area. I would be
glad to send you some of the articles from the better medical journals. It
is difficult to post them here because they are in PDF Acrobat format and
many news providers only allow "pure text" post to show up in their system.
I may post them here but I know that many will never be able to read it or
even have it showup at all. Remember that Adobe Acrobat 5.0 READER is FREE
and most journal articles use this format. The graphics and color
presentations really go a long way to making a lot of this stuff
understandable. I have no medical training but I was married for 25 years to
a Physical Therapist. I inherited a good medical library and have seen the
Miracle of full and partial recovery from some terrible injury and diseases.
The new area of controlling MMPs has opened to door to greatly possibly
stopping the damage to the nervous system and enhancing current therapies..
I invite you go to http://www.pubmed.gov and do some research on MMPs for a
start. I hope you can join us.
Jack N Dalton
jack n dalton
2004-02-21 00:25:12 UTC
Permalink
NBD

Looks like I am not going to make much of a commission from you. I will
still send you some Lancet, Nature and that other rag, the Scientific
American, articles so you can avoid excessive wear and tear of your library
card.

Jack N Dalton
Post by Nice But Dim
Jack,
Thank you for your reply.
My opinion of "true" correctly performed
medical studies with blind trialing and subsequent
publication of results in acknowledged and certified
literature is not low. Far from it.
As for the pseudo science that you "pretend / mislead"
people into believing I find it makes me want to vomit.
As for your attempts at trying to explain to me what
MS is, I think I will rely on my own conclusions and those of the
people I have grown to trust whilst researching this disease for 13
years. Such people as Paul Jones, Jean Sumption, & Chris Jones
were all beginners too back 10 years ago. They "still" are but they
provide a truely helpful informed service to people with MS.
AND they don't want to flog me a thing !
I still have access to "all" major medical journals, and maintain my
Bodelian Library card as well as my medical library card at the
University of Westminster. I have the sad task of downloading new
updates to Adobe Acrobat 6 on an almost weekly basis as the damn
thing wasn't finished when Adobe released it. It does however
work when it comes to reading PDF docs.
I have a simple and easy to understand rule when anybody
approaches me with an MS "cure".
Have they asked me for money first ?
If they have then my reply (closed minded or not) is
generally two words the second one being OFF.
Stay Well
NBD
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:40:16 GMT, "jack n dalton"
Post by jack n dalton
NDB
Your low opinion of current medical studies is unfounded. Many describe how
MS progresses and how simple supplements and foods can have a positive
effect on the course of the disease. Because MS may be a "two stage" disease
it may be that only those with the 1st stage inflammatory processes can
benefit most from these things. This is still an unknown area. I would be
glad to send you some of the articles from the better medical journals. It
is difficult to post them here because they are in PDF Acrobat format and
many news providers only allow "pure text" post to show up in their system.
I may post them here but I know that many will never be able to read it or
even have it showup at all. Remember that Adobe Acrobat 5.0 READER is FREE
and most journal articles use this format. The graphics and color
presentations really go a long way to making a lot of this stuff
understandable. I have no medical training but I was married for 25 years to
a Physical Therapist. I inherited a good medical library and have seen the
Miracle of full and partial recovery from some terrible injury and diseases.
The new area of controlling MMPs has opened to door to greatly possibly
stopping the damage to the nervous system and enhancing current therapies..
I invite you go to http://www.pubmed.gov and do some research on MMPs for a
start. I hope you can join us.
Jack N Dalton
Glen Appleby
2004-02-21 11:39:00 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:17:38 GMT, in
alt.support.mult-sclerosis,Nice But Dim
<***@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote:

[Lotsa good and interesting stuff]
Post by Nice But Dim
I have a simple and easy to understand rule when anybody
approaches me with an MS "cure".
Have they asked me for money first ?
If they have then my reply (closed minded or not) is
generally two words the second one being OFF.
Here's what I use to determine the value of the "cures" in this
newsgroup: Do they still have MS? Even with their knowledge of
their miraculous "cure"?

That is why I try to be very clear that my (pat. pend.) treatment
for MS (chocolate, often and lots!) is not a cure, but only a
treatment that at least gives pleasure.

--
"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby ***@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
David S-H
2004-02-17 10:24:14 UTC
Permalink
My word, that told him! Thank you for brightening my Tuesday morning.

Rgds

David
--------------------
Campath-1H - my experience of it.
http://www.davidscampathstory.org/

Please help me raise money for the UK MS Soc
http://www.davidsbigfootwalk.com
-------------------
Post by Nice But Dim
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:53:41 -0800, "Rob Duncan"
Post by Rob Duncan
"Nice But Dim"
Post by Nice But Dim
However we have another loony in the group flogging Flavanoids
and OPC's to the trusting, what with that and the fish oil man I am
buying shares in toilet tissue companies...LOL
NBD
Simply because you cant understand the abstracts he posts doesnt mean he is
incorrect... it means you dont understand the abstracts he posts. I would
suggest informing yourself better before resorting to insults. Your
inability to understand the science behind his recomendations may be to your
detriment. I hope for you that you will educate yourself on the matter.
Rob
Sigh...
Rob I am a doctor and have a degree in biochemistry
I spent 6 years working for the NHS in the UK and then
almost a lifetime working for Merck and a number of other
medical companies... Woo Hoo my CV. I have had MS
for 13 years now.
I have also researched and personally TRIED OPC's.
The flavanoids "con" trick is a well known one,
it sounds so plausible and it is very easy for the MLM
pariahs to sell to the desperate and unwary.
Its cheap its easy to sell in little bottles and it is unlikely
to kill the user so therefore will not make MAJOR headlines.
The TOTAL lack of any respectable study on
something which has supposedly been known about
for so long is enough EVIDENCE that it is BS. I personally
took OPC's for 2 years 13 years ago. All they ever did was
cost me money and give me a gastric ulcer.
Quite why your kneejerk reaction was to try the
"inform yourself dumbo" reply when you had no
background on me, leads me to believe you are
also planning on going into the pariah business
of flogging this junk.
I am more than happy to "SELL" you loads of
"serious" scientific piles of BS on why you should be
a. chelated,
b. why iron did it,
c. why your amalgams are guilty.
d. why you would be fit and healthy had
diet coke and Aspartame never existed.
e. why tall people need HGH
f. how to stop DHEA playing fatboy games
g. why you should fill your pants with
blue green algae.
The bottom line is that the crud the guy has been posting
IS NOT science.
IT IS a confidence trick to sell CRAP.
Sadly people like you help him get away with it.
You really need to spend a few hours cruising around
sites such as.
www.quackwatch.org
In fact the site "author" Stephen Barret has some
very valid points to make about the whole anti-oxidant
scam himself.
Stay Well
NBD
PS Just off to get those shares in the toilet tissue...
renewable of course...<VBG>
David S-H
2004-02-17 10:25:34 UTC
Permalink
Incidentally, does OPCs stand for Other People's Children? And if it does,
do you think whoever's flogging them could dispose of mine for a while?

Rgds
Post by Nice But Dim
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:53:41 -0800, "Rob Duncan"
Post by Rob Duncan
"Nice But Dim"
Post by Nice But Dim
However we have another loony in the group flogging Flavanoids
and OPC's to the trusting, what with that and the fish oil man I am
buying shares in toilet tissue companies...LOL
NBD
Simply because you cant understand the abstracts he posts doesnt mean he is
incorrect... it means you dont understand the abstracts he posts. I would
suggest informing yourself better before resorting to insults. Your
inability to understand the science behind his recomendations may be to your
detriment. I hope for you that you will educate yourself on the matter.
Rob
Sigh...
Rob I am a doctor and have a degree in biochemistry
I spent 6 years working for the NHS in the UK and then
almost a lifetime working for Merck and a number of other
medical companies... Woo Hoo my CV. I have had MS
for 13 years now.
I have also researched and personally TRIED OPC's.
The flavanoids "con" trick is a well known one,
it sounds so plausible and it is very easy for the MLM
pariahs to sell to the desperate and unwary.
Its cheap its easy to sell in little bottles and it is unlikely
to kill the user so therefore will not make MAJOR headlines.
The TOTAL lack of any respectable study on
something which has supposedly been known about
for so long is enough EVIDENCE that it is BS. I personally
took OPC's for 2 years 13 years ago. All they ever did was
cost me money and give me a gastric ulcer.
Quite why your kneejerk reaction was to try the
"inform yourself dumbo" reply when you had no
background on me, leads me to believe you are
also planning on going into the pariah business
of flogging this junk.
I am more than happy to "SELL" you loads of
"serious" scientific piles of BS on why you should be
a. chelated,
b. why iron did it,
c. why your amalgams are guilty.
d. why you would be fit and healthy had
diet coke and Aspartame never existed.
e. why tall people need HGH
f. how to stop DHEA playing fatboy games
g. why you should fill your pants with
blue green algae.
The bottom line is that the crud the guy has been posting
IS NOT science.
IT IS a confidence trick to sell CRAP.
Sadly people like you help him get away with it.
You really need to spend a few hours cruising around
sites such as.
www.quackwatch.org
In fact the site "author" Stephen Barret has some
very valid points to make about the whole anti-oxidant
scam himself.
Stay Well
NBD
PS Just off to get those shares in the toilet tissue...
renewable of course...<VBG>
Michael
2004-02-17 17:00:55 UTC
Permalink
And thank *you* for brightening *my* day, David. :-)

((U))
M
Post by David S-H
Incidentally, does OPCs stand for Other People's Children? And if it
does, do you think whoever's flogging them could dispose of mine for
a while?
Rgds
Post by Nice But Dim
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:53:41 -0800, "Rob Duncan"
Post by Rob Duncan
"Nice But Dim"
Post by Nice But Dim
However we have another loony in the group flogging Flavanoids
and OPC's to the trusting, what with that and the fish oil man I am
buying shares in toilet tissue companies...LOL
NBD
Simply because you cant understand the abstracts he posts doesnt
mean he is incorrect... it means you dont understand the abstracts
he posts. I would suggest informing yourself better before
resorting to insults. Your inability to understand the science
behind his recomendations may be to your detriment. I hope for you
that you will educate yourself on the matter.
Rob
Sigh...
Rob I am a doctor and have a degree in biochemistry
I spent 6 years working for the NHS in the UK and then
almost a lifetime working for Merck and a number of other
medical companies... Woo Hoo my CV. I have had MS
for 13 years now.
I have also researched and personally TRIED OPC's.
The flavanoids "con" trick is a well known one,
it sounds so plausible and it is very easy for the MLM
pariahs to sell to the desperate and unwary.
Its cheap its easy to sell in little bottles and it is unlikely
to kill the user so therefore will not make MAJOR headlines.
The TOTAL lack of any respectable study on
something which has supposedly been known about
for so long is enough EVIDENCE that it is BS. I personally
took OPC's for 2 years 13 years ago. All they ever did was
cost me money and give me a gastric ulcer.
Quite why your kneejerk reaction was to try the
"inform yourself dumbo" reply when you had no
background on me, leads me to believe you are
also planning on going into the pariah business
of flogging this junk.
I am more than happy to "SELL" you loads of
"serious" scientific piles of BS on why you should be
a. chelated,
b. why iron did it,
c. why your amalgams are guilty.
d. why you would be fit and healthy had
diet coke and Aspartame never existed.
e. why tall people need HGH
f. how to stop DHEA playing fatboy games
g. why you should fill your pants with
blue green algae.
The bottom line is that the crud the guy has been posting
IS NOT science.
IT IS a confidence trick to sell CRAP.
Sadly people like you help him get away with it.
You really need to spend a few hours cruising around
sites such as.
www.quackwatch.org
In fact the site "author" Stephen Barret has some
very valid points to make about the whole anti-oxidant
scam himself.
Stay Well
NBD
PS Just off to get those shares in the toilet tissue...
renewable of course...<VBG>
Nice But Dim
2004-02-17 17:22:00 UTC
Permalink
ROFL

Sadly there is little I can do to help you,
I thought I had managed to get rid of one
of mine by packing him off to university,
but he keeps coming back, grubbier,
bigger and hungrier than before !

If you find a way I would be grateful for any
help you can offer.

Thanks for the smile.

NBD
Post by David S-H
Incidentally, does OPCs stand for Other People's Children? And if it does,
do you think whoever's flogging them could dispose of mine for a while?
Rgds
Post by Nice But Dim
On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:53:41 -0800, "Rob Duncan"
Post by Rob Duncan
"Nice But Dim"
Post by Nice But Dim
However we have another loony in the group flogging Flavanoids
and OPC's to the trusting, what with that and the fish oil man I am
buying shares in toilet tissue companies...LOL
NBD
Simply because you cant understand the abstracts he posts doesnt mean he
is
Post by Nice But Dim
Post by Rob Duncan
incorrect... it means you dont understand the abstracts he posts. I
would
Post by Nice But Dim
Post by Rob Duncan
suggest informing yourself better before resorting to insults. Your
inability to understand the science behind his recomendations may be to
your
Post by Nice But Dim
Post by Rob Duncan
detriment. I hope for you that you will educate yourself on the matter.
Rob
Sigh...
Rob I am a doctor and have a degree in biochemistry
I spent 6 years working for the NHS in the UK and then
almost a lifetime working for Merck and a number of other
medical companies... Woo Hoo my CV. I have had MS
for 13 years now.
I have also researched and personally TRIED OPC's.
The flavanoids "con" trick is a well known one,
it sounds so plausible and it is very easy for the MLM
pariahs to sell to the desperate and unwary.
Its cheap its easy to sell in little bottles and it is unlikely
to kill the user so therefore will not make MAJOR headlines.
The TOTAL lack of any respectable study on
something which has supposedly been known about
for so long is enough EVIDENCE that it is BS. I personally
took OPC's for 2 years 13 years ago. All they ever did was
cost me money and give me a gastric ulcer.
Quite why your kneejerk reaction was to try the
"inform yourself dumbo" reply when you had no
background on me, leads me to believe you are
also planning on going into the pariah business
of flogging this junk.
I am more than happy to "SELL" you loads of
"serious" scientific piles of BS on why you should be
a. chelated,
b. why iron did it,
c. why your amalgams are guilty.
d. why you would be fit and healthy had
diet coke and Aspartame never existed.
e. why tall people need HGH
f. how to stop DHEA playing fatboy games
g. why you should fill your pants with
blue green algae.
The bottom line is that the crud the guy has been posting
IS NOT science.
IT IS a confidence trick to sell CRAP.
Sadly people like you help him get away with it.
You really need to spend a few hours cruising around
sites such as.
www.quackwatch.org
In fact the site "author" Stephen Barret has some
very valid points to make about the whole anti-oxidant
scam himself.
Stay Well
NBD
PS Just off to get those shares in the toilet tissue...
renewable of course...<VBG>
Joan Carter
2004-02-18 04:22:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by David S-H
Incidentally, does OPCs stand for Other People's Children? And if it does,
do you think whoever's flogging them could dispose of mine for a while?
Isn't that called child abuse, David? :-)

---
Joan
Jim Carter
2004-02-18 15:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joan Carter
Post by David S-H
Incidentally, does OPCs stand for Other People's Children? And if it does,
do you think whoever's flogging them could dispose of mine for a while?
Isn't that called child abuse, David? :-)
---
Joan
Only by the bleeding heart, commie, pinko Liberals with an agenda. But just
look at what Clintonistas did.
--
Gardening Zones
Canada Zone 5a
United States Zone 3a
Near Ottawa, Ontario
David S-H
2004-02-18 18:40:48 UTC
Permalink
If it's done in private, yes, otherwise it's public entertainment.

Rgds
Post by Joan Carter
Post by David S-H
Incidentally, does OPCs stand for Other People's Children? And if it does,
do you think whoever's flogging them could dispose of mine for a while?
Isn't that called child abuse, David? :-)
---
Joan
Sylvia
2004-02-18 02:29:58 UTC
Permalink
Nice But Not So Dim;
Post by Nice But Dim
You really need to spend a few hours cruising around
sites such as.
www.quackwatchNOT.org
In fact the site "author" SB has some
very valid points to make about the whole anti-oxidant
scam himself.
True, SB has a lot of valuable information here,especially about the
MLM companies that prey upon sick people, but his total refusal to
think outside the box when it comes to diseases with unknown causes.
I used to recommend his site, but I no longer do.

Hia total defense of the industries that are producing poison in our
food, air, water, and living spaces makes me a more than a little
skeptical of him. Who is he, anyway? He says he is a doctor, but he
is a psychiatrist, not on medical doctor who has dealt with the
diseases of the human body.

He dismisses any information that does not fit into the mainstream
scientific paradigm; this also is not science. You must remember that
MS a few centuries ago was called the "slacker's disease" because
doctors could not explain what was wrong with these patients; they
were called "lazy," "crazy, "hysterical," and worse.

He has lost lawsuit after lawsuit; the most recent one I can remember
was in the state of Wisconsin. He also sues people who "slander" him
on the Internet; he loses, here, too.

His minions have shown up on ASMS a few times, and we may be hearing
from one of them soon. One of them threatened a poster on ASMS a few
years ago. That's why I have just used his initials; I don't want to
deal with people like that.

Sylvia
Andrewcavanagh
2004-02-21 11:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Again I have nothing for sale, no products to sell nor will I ever sell products.
Even the book I suggest in the notes is free.
So I really don't have anything to "get away with".

Just one question and I certainly don't want this to come out the wrong way - have you studied nutrition to any degree formally or informally?
Also are you familiar with the concept of an insulin controlling diet, low in arachadonic acid, high in EPA, to control eicosanoid production?

I have the greatest respect for the medical profession.
Their knowledge of drug delivery, sugery etc is simply fabulous.
I would never claim to have even a speck of knowledge in this area.
This is why I never mention drugs.
If you go back and read my post you will realise that nearly all of it is simple mainstream diet, exercise, hygiene suggestions.
What I don't know far exceeds what I do know.

I have many friends in the medical profession with the same opinion.
Having an idea of where my limits lie is very important to me.

Thank you again for your comments and I wish you the best of health.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
www.geocities.com/glorioushealth
Joan Carter
2004-02-21 16:58:58 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 05:31:04 -0600, "Andrewcavanagh"
Post by Andrewcavanagh
What I don't know far exceeds what I do know.
I have many friends in the medical profession with the same opinion.
Having an idea of where my limits lie is very important to me.
Well, at least you don't claim to have a Nobel prize like Tom the Bloodletter!
That is positive. :-)

---
Joan
Nice But Dim
2004-02-23 01:18:13 UTC
Permalink
Oh sod it Joan,

I had just bought a job lot of clean and
luxurious leeches and you go and ruin
my latest scam...bah humbug..LOL

NBD



On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:58:58 -0500, Joan Carter
Post by Joan Carter
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 05:31:04 -0600, "Andrewcavanagh"
Post by Andrewcavanagh
What I don't know far exceeds what I do know.
I have many friends in the medical profession with the same opinion.
Having an idea of where my limits lie is very important to me.
Well, at least you don't claim to have a Nobel prize like Tom the Bloodletter!
That is positive. :-)
---
Joan
Joan Carter
2004-02-23 20:30:33 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:13 GMT, Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Oh sod it Joan,
I had just bought a job lot of clean and
luxurious leeches and you go and ruin
my latest scam...bah humbug..LOL
Ohhh, sorry. I'm sure they are lovely leeches though with great personalities. I
hear they make good pets. But they might eat your chocolate. :-)
---
Joan
Nice But Dim
2004-02-24 10:45:16 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 15:30:33 -0500, Joan Carter
Post by Joan Carter
On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:18:13 GMT, Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Oh sod it Joan,
I had just bought a job lot of clean and
luxurious leeches and you go and ruin
my latest scam...bah humbug..LOL
Ohhh, sorry. I'm sure they are lovely leeches though with great personalities. I
hear they make good pets. But they might eat your chocolate. :-)
---
Joan
Joan,

Remind me not to go to your pet shop
if your idea of a good pet is a leech...PIMPL

NBD
Joan Carter
2004-02-24 21:45:11 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:45:16 GMT, Nice But Dim
Post by Nice But Dim
Joan,
Remind me not to go to your pet shop
if your idea of a good pet is a leech...PIMPL
I have seen leeches in action in PICU. Cute... NOT. But they got the job done.
:-)

What is PIMPL? New one for me.

---
Joan

Andrewcavanagh
2004-02-21 06:54:57 UTC
Permalink
Dear Rob,

Thank you so much for defending me.
Really though this resistance to new ideas is well founded. Most of what you'll see or hear about health is just misleading or irresponsible.

We need to find kindness and respect for everyone.
No particular viewpoint is 100% correct and you can't blame people for putting up their defenses.

It's interesting to note that flavinoids can inhibit the production of "bad" eicosanoids like PGE2 implicated in the inflammation in MS
Flavinoids like naringen and hesperitin inhibit the release of arachadonic acid from the cell membranes by inhibiting an enzyme called phospholipase A2.
Arachadonic acid is the major building block of "bad" eicosanoids like PGE2.
And remember PGE2 is implicated in MS along with every major western disease (inflammation etc).

The "loony" they mention might be on to something.

Thank you again and I wish you the best of health.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
JiLs
2004-02-21 06:47:34 UTC
Permalink
resistance to new ideas?
i think a fair proportion of the people on this newsgroup are sticking themselves
every day with various ms meds. all of which are "new", certainly to the people using
them!!
Post by Andrewcavanagh
Dear Rob,
Thank you so much for defending me.
Really though this resistance to new ideas is well founded. Most of what you'll
see or hear about health is just misleading or irresponsible.
Post by Andrewcavanagh
We need to find kindness and respect for everyone.
No particular viewpoint is 100% correct and you can't blame people for putting up
their defenses.
Post by Andrewcavanagh
It's interesting to note that flavinoids can inhibit the production of "bad"
eicosanoids like PGE2 implicated in the inflammation in MS
Post by Andrewcavanagh
Flavinoids like naringen and hesperitin inhibit the release of arachadonic acid
from the cell membranes by inhibiting an enzyme called phospholipase A2.
Post by Andrewcavanagh
Arachadonic acid is the major building block of "bad" eicosanoids like PGE2.
And remember PGE2 is implicated in MS along with every major western disease
(inflammation etc).
Post by Andrewcavanagh
The "loony" they mention might be on to something.
Thank you again and I wish you the best of health.
Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
Andrewcavanagh
2004-02-21 06:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Thank you for your post.
Again I must point out that I do not sell health products or fish oil and I make no commission or profit from their sale.

Thank you also for calling me "another loony".

It really is difficult giving you free information.
Perhaps I should have put it all in an ebook and charged you $50 for it.

All jokes aside, I understand and respect your scepticism.
There are simply too many spammers and peddlers in the world.
People who have known me for some time know I am the real deal but I don't mind that you're maintaining that healthy resistence to the heavy duty world of marketing.

I do suggest you look into fish oil though.

At your local bookstore you can buy a copy of the bestseller the Omega Rx Zone by Dr Barry Sears.
This book explains pharmaceutical grade fish oil in extensive detail.

You could also dowload the book From depression to glorious health free at www.geocities.com/glorioushealth

I thank you again and hope something I say might help you in some way.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
Andrewcavanagh
2004-02-21 06:33:41 UTC
Permalink
This is funny.
I was about as sceptical as you.
But you can go to www.pubmed.com and do a search for studies about fish oil and MS.

I also suggest you read the Omega Rx Zone by Dr Barry Sears.

Keep in mind I do not nor will I ever receive a commission from the sale of health products.
So I have nothing to gain financially by giving you this suggestion.

Thank you again for you hilarious post.

I wish you the best of health and send you only warm feelings.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
CW
2004-02-15 21:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
I believe you can beat MS.
Let me introduce myself.
I am Andrew Cavanagh, a health writer from Australia.
I am a member of the Australasian Medical Writers association.
I've been involved in the health and fitness field for over 15 years as a
writer and consultant.
I would hate to give people false hope but it is my experience and the
experience of many other well credentialled, high profile leaders in the
health field that you can halt the progression of multiple sclerosis and
even reverse existing symptoms.
My notes on this disease are below.
You can also download the notes and the highly recommended free book From
Depression to Glorious Health from the website
www.geocities.com/glorioushealth
This book was originally written as a protocol for an MS sufferer and has
proved to be effective.
MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS
Multiple sclerosis is an autoimmune disease.
Basically your body's immume system begins attacking the myelin sheath of
your nerve endings particulary in your brain.
The origninal cause of this confusion of the immune system is most likely a
Herpes virus (HHV6). It is possible other viruses could be similarly
responsible (possibly chickenpox and measles).
The herpes virus resides in the nerve base and moves to the nerve endings
initiating a herpes episode (blisters etc). MS episodes are usually
preceded by some form of viral attack and especially a herpes episode.
Herpes is spread by contact with blisters containing the active herpes
virus.
The most likely method that Herpes reaches your brain is through
1. Contact with the active herpes virus (blisters) through your fingers
2. Subsequent contact with the mouth.
Nail biting is especially implicated in MS (Which could explain the higher
incidence in women. More women bite their nails than men).
Leading expert on advanced hygiene Dr Kenneth Seaton suggests that the
confusion of your immune system could be caused when protein in the
fingernails, mucus, dead skin and other proteins similar in constitution to
the myelin sheath in your nerves are ingested with the active herpes virus.
If the virus takes up residence in the nerve endings of your brain then this
could lead to your immune system confusing the myelin sheath of the nerve
endings in your brain with the virus which has been ingested with these
proteins similar in constitution to the myelin sheath.
The overactive immune response in autoimmune diseases like MS is usually
related to bad eicosanoids called cytokines which regulate immune response.
Continuing inflammation, which can result in further and continued damage is
related to the bad eicosanoid PGE2 which has been found in elevated levels
in patients with MS and depression. (The two diseases are linked.
Depression is very common in MS patients).
TREATMENT.
FISH OIL
Large dosage of pharmaceutical grade fish oil is usually an effective
treatment for MS.
Recommeded dosage is around 2-4 teaspoons or 8-16 capsules of
pharmaceutical
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
grade fish oil (5-10 grams of omega 3 fatty acids).
Doses are usually more effective if increased sympotmatically (if your
symptoms don't disappear increase the dose) and in severe cases a dosage as
high as 20grams of omega 3 fatty acids a day may be appropriate - twice the
maximum dose listed above.
Dosage should be maintained indefinitely to ensure symptoms do not reappear.
Basically you take the minimum dose of fish oil required to be free of the
symptoms of MS and depression.
It is important to note that ceasing intake of fish oil is likely to result
in the return of MS symptoms.
In the absence of an AA/EPA test (which is recommended) you can get a
guideline on your dosage for pharmaceutical grade fish oil with a simple
cholesterol test you can have at your local doctor's.
Divide your triglycerides(TG) by HDL. You should aim for a TG/HDL ratio of
around 0.3 to 1. If it is more than 1.5 you probably need to take a higher
dose of fish oil. Higher than 2 and you definitely need more fish oil (also
look at diet, exercise etc.)
HOW FISH OIL WORKS
The fish oil can work in two basic ways.
The EPA in fish oil is the major building block of good eicosanoids and can
slow down your body's production of the bad eicosanoids like the cytokines
and PGE2. EPA can reduce levels of bad eicosanoids by inhibiting an enzyme
called delta 5 desaturase which is required for their production.
The DHA in fish oil helps repair nerve endings, and lay down new brain
tissue.
Remember it is damage to the myelin sheath in the nerve endings that is
the
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
primary cause of MS symptoms.
DIET
The original and very effective Swank diet for MS was based on fish and eggs
as protein sources. No milk or dairy. No red meat. No wheat products or
sugar. Very similar to a zone diet.
Over a 35 year period (an impressive length of time for any study) 95% of
patients on the Swank diet never progressed to any form of disability.
I believe a zone diet which incorporates the elimination of dairy, wheat,
sugar and most red meat not only coincides with a Swank diet but should be
more effective by reducing levels of the bad eicosanoids implicated in MS
(the cytokines and PGE2 in particular).
The book From Depression to Glorious Health which you can dowload free at
www.geocities.com/glorioushealth describes a zone type diet designed for MS
and depression patients.
dairy - the peptides in milk have been found to be molecular mimics of self
antigens in myelin
wheat products and sugar linked to cadidas (see below)
limits red meat and egg yolks (egg yolks, red meat and especially the fat in
red meat are high in arachadonic acid the building block of bad eicosanoids)
CANDIDAS
Candidas is common in MS patients (often due to courses of antibiotics taken
for viruses like herpes) so the elimination of sugar and wheat which tend to
feed this bacteria and taking a daily dose of an acidophilus/bifidus capsule
between meals should help restore intestinal flora.
VITAMIN C
The herpes virus (and many other viruses) can respond to large, frequent
doses of vitamin C especially if the does are titrated to bowel tolerance at
the onset of early symptoms. Suggested dosage is 4-30 daily doses of
250mg-1500mg of vitamin C with bioflavinoids (powder in water).
Cold sores are often eliminated with large doses of vitamin C.
HYGEINE
Stop biting your nails.
Any reinnoculation of the virus could potentially worsen the MS condition.
Avoid contact between your fingers and your mouth.
Use kitchen utensils to eat.
Clean your fingernails with clean zone soap from
www.advancedhygieneproducts.com to reduce any chance of reinnoculation and
to reduce the chance of picking up other viruses which can lead to an MS
episode.
Avoid contact between your fingers and your eyes and nose for the same
reason.
Perform facial dips once or twice daily to prevent the development of
respiratory viruses.
EMOTIONAL HEALTH
Excess stress can lead to the excess release of the stress hormone cortisol.
Too much cortisol leads to an overproduction of bad eicosanoids like PGE2
and cytokines.
So learning basic relaxation methods and dealing with emotional distress
effectively is essential for the MS patient.
The negative thinking spiral is common to MS and depression. Sharing
problems and feelings with someone objective and various forms of therapy
(cognitive therapy etc) are recommended.
EFT (emotional freedom technique - a method for relieving negative emotions
is highly recommended.
These are covered in more detail in From Depression to Glorious Health (free
download www.geocities.com/glorioushealth ).
SLEEP
Sleep onset and quality can be poor in patients with MS and depression.
This is related to low levels of serotonin, the "feel good" hormone, which
is converted to melatonin the "sleep" hormone.
The good eicosanoid PGE1 is responsible for the release and uptake of
serotonin so increasing levels of good eicosanoids with diet and lifestyle
should help improve sleep.
Getting 15-30 minutes of bright sunshine in the morning and limiting
exposure to bright lights at night (red light is allright) can help improve
sleep patterns and quality of sleep.
Also consider supplementing with 3-6mg of melatonin a half hour to an hour
before bedtime to help with sleep onset and quality.
EXERCISE
Exercise can help reduce levels of the stress hormone cortisol and help
increase insulin sensitivity both of which can help increase the production
of good eicosanoids.
Repetitive exercise like walking or jogging also helps release the feel good
hormone serotonin.
Exercise and stretching in the morning can help improve sleep quality at
night.
Some strength building exercises (push ups, abdominal crunches and squats)
are recommended along with some aerobic exercise (walking, jogging,
dancing).
A total daily exercise time of 25-45 minutes is probably a healthy goal you
can work up to gradually.
Performing EFT (the method for relieving emotional distress) while
exercising is highly recommended.
CONCLUSION
Of all these therapies diet is probably the most effective at halting the
progression of MS and pharmaceutical grade fish oil is probably the most
effective at reversing the physical symptoms of the disease. Larger doses
of fish oil will probably be necessary if the other guidelines are not being
met.
Hygiene, emotional health, sleep and exercise should all be undetaken
seriously to achieve excellent long term health.
It should be noted that depression can be considered an early symptom of the
more serious symptoms of MS in the MS patient since both diseases are linked
to the bad eicosanoid PGE2.
So to be symptom free from MS you also need to eliminate any symptoms of
depression.
The book From depression to glorious health is highly recommended and free.
Website: www.geocities.com/glorioushealth
Mr. Cavanaugh,

Unfortunately, all of what you have written has appeared in this newsgroup
previously. However, it appears that you suffer from Addleduck Syndrome.
The principle cause of Addleduck Syndrome is not propagating. Don't lose
hope - your remedy is in your hands. Please go cure yourself.

CW
Joyce
2004-02-17 04:50:57 UTC
Permalink
oh great !! so what if we all got together and lived in a sterile glass
house, glass so's we could see the world outside passing us by. I think I
wouldn't get anything done if I followed all those rules, anyway I would
have to keep going back and looking at the list, by the time I did one thing
I would have forgot anyway. gosh all these people that can beat the
monster, or better yet, teach us how to beat it. they need a medal.

Joyce
d***@cheetah.net
2004-02-17 05:02:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joyce
oh great !! so what if we all got together and lived in a sterile glass
house, glass so's we could see the world outside passing us by. I think I
wouldn't get anything done if I followed all those rules, anyway I would
have to keep going back and looking at the list, by the time I did one thing
I would have forgot anyway. gosh all these people that can beat the
monster, or better yet, teach us how to beat it. they need a medal.
Joyce
Glass house? sterile? live?
Invest in window cleaners.

Donn
Andrewcavanagh
2004-02-21 11:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Strangely enough, I agree with you.
There is a lot of information there.

Keep in mind though:
You now eat food - does it take any extra time to make better food choices.
Sleeping better or a little more is no great burden.
Developing a better attitude is also not time consuming - you have to think something why not make it positive, uplifting.
You go to the toilet now - is it really a great burden to wash your hands and dry them every time you go to the toilet?

I don't mean this as any kind of criticism I'm just pointing out that many positive changes don't require extra time just a little education.

My own fiancee has MS (although she has been symptom free for some time) so I certainly can understand how you would be sick and tired of hearing about some other "cure" etc.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
http://www.geocities.com/glorioushealth
Jim Stinnett
2004-02-18 05:10:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
I believe you can beat MS.
Let me introduce myself.
I am Andrew Cavanagh,
a giant spammer from who gives a shit.
No go away.
And stop biting your nails, on your feet that is.
Andrewcavanagh
2004-02-21 07:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Thank you for your email.

It is difficult to be a spammer when you're not selling anything.

I don't sell health products or recieve any commissions from the sale of health products.

I understand your post though.
There are a lot of spammers in the world.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
Sylvia
2004-02-22 02:47:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrewcavanagh
Thank you for your email.
And no thanks for yours.
Post by Andrewcavanagh
It is difficult to be a spammer when you're not selling anything.
Ah, NOW I remembet you! One of our trolls has come back. . .geez,
wasn't somebody here keeping a list? Somebody should!

A "spammer" is not always selling anything. "Spam" is unwanted email;
which this certainly qualifies as.

Most spammers are trying to sell something for money, but some are
just here for their own strange motives. Not being well-versed in any
of the fields studying the human mind, I can only guess why.

Maybe it makes you feel important to get a bunch of responses on a
newsgroup. Or you like to throw out your "theories" on the Internet
because you can't get them published elsewhere. Or you're just bored.

It doesn't matter, really. All I know is that you show up every so
often, get a bunch of negative responses, and then vanish.

Well, let's see how long he sticks around this time, and how long it
takes him to come back with who only knows what ideas next.

Sylvia
JiLs
2004-02-21 05:07:07 UTC
Permalink
from one australian to another, andrew, all i have to say is: what are you trying to
sell me?

you're like the ubiquitous telephone sales person that calls at dinner time ...

to my asms friends, please forgive my fellow countryman for being such a prat.

oh, one other thing, your subject line says "My success with MS patients" .. yet you
don't mention any of "your" patients. how many? where? what sort of success?

i wonder if andrew has the decency to return here to read our responses. i will copy
this to his private email address.
Post by Andrew Cavanagh
I believe you can beat MS.
Jim Carter
2004-02-21 16:31:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by JiLs
to my asms friends, please forgive my fellow countryman for being such a prat.
We all have our crosses to bear, we Canucks have Tommy. <hangs head in shame>
__

*´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·->Jim
Glen Appleby
2004-02-22 03:09:47 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:31:10 -0500, in
Post by Jim Carter
We all have our crosses to bear, we Canucks have Tommy. <hangs head in shame>
Aw, don't sweat *that*! You've also got Joan and Michael.

--
"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby ***@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Joan Carter
2004-02-22 16:38:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Glen Appleby
Aw, don't sweat *that*! You've also got Joan and Michael.
Michael, have we been given a compliment here?:-)

---
Joan
melodynamic
2004-02-22 17:36:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joan Carter
Post by Glen Appleby
Aw, don't sweat *that*! You've also got Joan and Michael.
Michael, have we been given a compliment here?:-)
---
Joan
LOL Is kind of vague, isn't it? If I were you, I'd never have asked. <G>

Now, if I said it, it would have been a compliment. ;)
luv&stuff,
Denise
Glen Appleby
2004-02-23 08:56:13 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 11:38:59 -0500, in
Post by Joan Carter
Post by Glen Appleby
Aw, don't sweat *that*! You've also got Joan and Michael.
Michael, have we been given a compliment here?:-)
Why act surprised? After all, the people should be the #1
tourist attraction of the Canadian Tourist Board.

--
"Who we are and who we become depends, in part, on whom we love."
-- "A General Theory Of Love" Thanks, Mom
______________________________________________________________
Glen Appleby ***@armory.com <HTTP://www.armory.com/~glena/>
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...