Discussion:
am I the only person who thinks Ronald Reagan is the greatest president of all time
(too old to reply)
Debra Whelan
2004-06-12 01:33:34 UTC
Permalink
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of the
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame war, but
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless Ronald
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the United
States of America.
Debby

I know in my heart that man is good.
That what is right will eventually triumph
And there's a purpose and worth for every life.
Ronald Reagan - 1911-2004.
Jennifer
2004-06-12 02:02:26 UTC
Permalink
i don't remember him as i was just a wee one. I'm glad he's not suffering
anymore

Jen
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of the
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame war, but
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless Ronald
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the United
States of America.
Debby
I know in my heart that man is good.
That what is right will eventually triumph
And there's a purpose and worth for every life.
Ronald Reagan - 1911-2004.
Debra Whelan
2004-06-12 03:31:37 UTC
Permalink
thanks Jen -
I am also glad he is no longer under the curtain of Alzheimer's - Hope
that the family find peace shortly. Only hope these left wing liberals can
recognize the truth and benefit for all men in the ideas espoused by Ronald
Reagan.

I am 48 yo and remember his presidency - I am a conservative and believe in
Reagan and his views. He spoke about the greatness of America, how people
can succeed and progress and achieve greatness. Yes, the national debt
increased under Reagan's administration, but as a nation, we became
militarily strong, capable of defending ourselves and other nations
throughout the world. Communism failed, democracy survived, and million
people live in freedom due to his efforts.

My mom has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease and I can only hope at 83
years of age she continues with a viable existence and does not disintegrate
a rapid rate. Another horrible disease that could benefit from intensive
research (along with MS, of course).
Debby
Post by Jennifer
i don't remember him as i was just a wee one. I'm glad he's not suffering
anymore
Jen
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of the
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame war,
but
Post by Debra Whelan
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless
Ronald
Post by Debra Whelan
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the United
States of America.
Debby
I know in my heart that man is good.
That what is right will eventually triumph
And there's a purpose and worth for every life.
Ronald Reagan - 1911-2004.
bobD
2004-06-12 04:28:27 UTC
Permalink
i rememeber president reagan,,
his chimp movie,, his meetings with gorbachev,and,my prime minister
mulrooney,, i was graduating high school in 1982,,'' frankie goes to
hollywood'' had a video with a reagan masked man and gorbachev masked man
beating each other up in a ring,, called ''2 tribes goe to war'' the line
''a point is all that you can score'' in the chorus,,

this was a scarry time for humans,, the thought of total nuclear destruction
was on everyones mind,, it was possible, the end of the world,, what was the
problem??? ignorance,, or lack of understanding of the other people,,

reagan made the world safe from nuclear war,, which was very close,, for
this he will always be remembered,,

i remember when he first had trouble remembering stuff and nancy would
prompt him,, made me think she was in control of the white house,, !!!

i liked him alot!!!! he scared the shit out of the communists!!! that was a
policy canada stood right by america on!!! as did the world!!! reagan was
awesome,, tuff, no bullshit,, but,,,the bedtime for bonzo movies??? well he
was a great president and world leader,,

i hope the war mongering idiot in office right now learns something,, from
this past week of remembering,,, cause he is far from the president reagan
was,, he is exactly opposite of what being president is,, thats why the
world hates mr bush,, not the people of the usa,, just this idot in
political office,,

if dubya was in office during the reagan years,, we would all be dead,, from
total nuke destruction,,,

bobD
Post by Debra Whelan
thanks Jen -
I am also glad he is no longer under the curtain of Alzheimer's - Hope
that the family find peace shortly. Only hope these left wing liberals can
recognize the truth and benefit for all men in the ideas espoused by Ronald
Reagan.
I am 48 yo and remember his presidency - I am a conservative and believe in
Reagan and his views. He spoke about the greatness of America, how people
can succeed and progress and achieve greatness. Yes, the national debt
increased under Reagan's administration, but as a nation, we became
militarily strong, capable of defending ourselves and other nations
throughout the world. Communism failed, democracy survived, and million
people live in freedom due to his efforts.
My mom has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease and I can only hope at 83
years of age she continues with a viable existence and does not disintegrate
a rapid rate. Another horrible disease that could benefit from intensive
research (along with MS, of course).
Debby
Post by Jennifer
i don't remember him as i was just a wee one. I'm glad he's not suffering
anymore
Jen
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of
the
Post by Jennifer
Post by Debra Whelan
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame war,
but
Post by Debra Whelan
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless
Ronald
Post by Debra Whelan
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the
United
Post by Jennifer
Post by Debra Whelan
States of America.
Debby
I know in my heart that man is good.
That what is right will eventually triumph
And there's a purpose and worth for every life.
Ronald Reagan - 1911-2004.
Kath
2004-06-12 05:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of the
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame war, but
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless Ronald
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the United
States of America.
I also express my pro-American views. And while I wish Mr. Reagan's
family well, having watched a great deal of the funeral, and having
remembered the losses in my own live, I have too much respect for
our country to allow history to be rewritten in such a manner.

Reagan was a deeply flawed president, he wasn't a force of freedom
and democracy for most of the world, and he didn't have a positive
impact of most of it, either.

Honor the memory of the man if you wish -- but don't rewrite history
in order to do it.

Kathie


http://www.buzzflash.com/theangryliberal/04/06/tal04006.html

June 8, 2004
The Real Legacy of Ronald Reagan
by The Angry Liberal

Before I get into a discussion of Ronald Reagan, the president, I
would like to make a few remarks about Ronald Reagan, the man. His
death, though not a surprise to anyone, has surely grieved his
friends, family, and a good deal of folks around the world. For
that, I am sorry. Despite my ongoing opposition to nearly every one
of Reagan's policies, there was one incident during his presidency
that I truly enjoyed. During a joint press conference with Soviet
President Mikhail Gorbachev in which a nuclear missile treaty was
discussed, Reagan tossed out the phrase, "Trust, but verify." Having
heard Reagan use that phrase too many times when discussing the
Soviets, Gorbachev rolled his eyes and said, "You always say that."
Reagan's reply: "Well, I like it." This remark was a graceful and
good-natured deflection of a mild criticism delivered from the
principle adversary of Reagan's time. I will miss the man who said
that. However, I will surely not miss the leader who began the
degradation of the office of the President of the United States.

At this point, I'm going to skip the accomplishments of the Reagan
administration. If you want to believe that Reagan won the Cold War,
I'm not going to argue. If you think Reagan should have been
impeached for selling arms to Iran and diverting the profits to the
rebels in Nicaragua, be my guest. What I am going to assert is the
following: Reagan's purported belief that less government is better
than more government has been completely ignored by the membership
of his own party. Moreover, Reagan's belief that government is the
problem, rather than the solution, has become a self-fulfilling
prophecy. After three Republican presidents (actually I count three
and a half by adding Clinton to this group), the United States
government is bigger, less efficient, more burdensome on the average
American, and much more dangerous to us all.

While Reagan spoke of making government smaller and more efficient,
Republicans instead exploded the size of government. Since 1980,
government expenditures have increased fourfold. Sixty percent of
this government growth occurred under "conservatives" Reagan and
Bushes, Jr. and Sr. With government under the control of a
"conservative" for 16 of the last 24 years, shouldn't we have a
smaller government by now? We certainly would if Republicans really
believed in smaller government.

While Reagan spoke of making government more efficient, Republicans
today have made the government less efficient than ever. Our
government's efficiency, when examined by the most basic measure of
dollars-in versus services-out, is a disaster. With a $7.2 trillion
deficit, taxpayers are seeing over $300 billion tax dollars a year
go to pay interest on the money that America borrowed to run the
government. Almost 65% of America's debt since the Revolutionary War
was created during the presidencies of Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II.
In rough terms, over 8% of the taxes Americans pay this year will go
toward paying interest on the conservative legacy. Imagine that: If
Reagan and the Bushes would have practiced actual conservatism, our
taxes could be lowered 8% across the board with absolutely no impact
on the government. The next time you are admiring the chunk of money
that the federal government takes from your paycheck, remember that
8% of that was mandated by your "conservative" government. And while
you're at it, remember that the 8% buys you absolutely nothing, and
that tax money is due every year for the rest of your life. So much
for efficient government.

I guess the most dangerous legacy of Ronald Reagan was that he
ushered in an era in which a president suddenly didn't need to be
particularly smart. He didn't need to know anything about foreign
affairs. He didn't need to know anything about the federal
government. Heck, he didn't even need to enact policies that most
Americans supported. After Reagan, all a president needed to be
elected was charm, wit, and a "can-do, but won't" attitude. Throw in
the ability to read a teleprompter while looking fairly sincere, and
America is suddenly renaming an airport after you. Simply put,
Ronald Reagan sold America on the idea that intelligence, a strong
work ethic, expertise, knowledge, and experience weren't necessary
for one to hold the most difficult job on the planet. Reagan wasn't
a strong president, but he played one on television. And to the
shame of America, that was good enough for most of us.

Without the Ronald Reagan presidency, there would certainly be no
George W. Bush presidency. After Reagan's presidency entered the
history books, Americans started believing that presidential
candidates no longer needed a strong political resume. True, Dubya
brought down the presidential qualification bar to an all-time low
when he entered office. But if an actor could run the nation for
eight years, electing a dim, arrogant frat boy who recently traded
alcohol for Jesus actually seemed within the realm of possibility. I
mean, how hard could being the most powerful man on earth be, anyway?

Unfortunately, America has seen that question answered after
September 11. It turns out that competence is a still virtue for the
leader of the free world. For instance, if you want to stop
terrorism, wouldn't it be a good idea to send troops to where the
terrorists are? Instead, we've seen a flustered Bush trying to kill
everybody he misperceives as a threat to the United States. A
competent president could have easily figured out that Saddam
Hussein represented no threat to the United States and therefore
concentrated America's resources on fighting the real terrorists.
Bush, on the other hand, has wasted the lives of over 800 American
soldiers and about $200 billion tax dollars. He has destroyed the
reputation of the United States all over the world with lies,
threats, and baseless preemptive war. He has littered Iraq with
bodies, each one a tribute to his inability to understand the nature
of the threat to our security. And in doing so, Bush is making new
enemies of America faster than he can kill the old ones. The bottom
line here is Bush has made America weaker and less safe because he
isn't remotely up to the job of running the United States. And the
mighty door that once kept incompetent people like George W. Bush
from becoming president was battered down by one Ronald Wilson Reagan.

That door wasn't locked, by the way. It just had a sign above the
handle that said, "Pull."


http://www.tompaine.com/print/reagans_bloody_legacy.php

Reagan's Bloody Legacy
David Corn
June 09, 2004

David Corn writes a twice-monthly column for TomPaine.com. Corn is
the Washington editor of The Nation and is the author of The Lies of
George W. Bush: Mastering the Politics of Deception (Crown Publishers).

Aren't we mature enough as a democracy to memorialize our leaders
with clear eyes? While the nation mourns one of its most popular
presidents, it must be truthful in assessing his leadership. The
very resolve being celebrated on op-ed pages across the country also
led Reagan to ignore and sometimes sanction the brutality being
committed in the name of fighting the "evil empire."

**************

I have a vision. On the day that Ronald Reagan's remains are
transported from the U.S. Capitol to the National Cathedral for the
funeral services, the hearse will pass 800 black crosses.

Each cross will represent one of the men, women and children who
were killed by the Salvadoran military in the village of El Mozote
in December 1981. Each would be a reminder that the dead man now
celebrated in the media as a lover of freedom and democracy oversaw
a foreign policy that empowered and enabled murderous brutes and
thugs in the name of anti-Sovietism. Many innocents in other lands
paid dearly for Reagan s crusade.

Throughout his presidency, Reagan made nice with dictators no matter
how nefarious as long as they parroted his opposition to communism.
As soon as he entered the White House, his administration tried to
normalize relations with Augusto Pinochet, the dictator of Chile,
who was responsible for a bloody coup that overthrew a
democratically elected (but socialist) government. The Reaganites
also cozied up to the fascistic and anti-Semitic junta of Argentina,
which tortured, slaughtered and disappeared its political opponents.
And don't forget Reagan s attempt to woo Saddam Hussein, even after
it was known that Hussein had used chemical weapons. (Reagan
assigned this task to Donald Rumsfeld.)

Reagan may have pushed for democracy and human rights in the Soviet
bloc, but he cared little for these values elsewhere. He
dramatically urged the destruction of the Berlin Wall and supported
the Solidarity movement in Poland. But he sent money and assistance
to regimes that repressed and murdered their people. While visiting
Ferdinand Marcos, the Filipino dictator, Reagan s vice president,
George H.W. Bush, toasted Marcos' "adherence to democratic
principles." People lost their freedom or died because Reagan and
his lieutenants could not see beyond their ideological blinders and
cut deals with miscreants who shared their anti-Moscow mantra. Not
only did Reagan embolden torturers and murders, but the CIA
following his order to support the contra rebels in Nicaragua (who
were trying to oust the socialist Sandinistas) worked with suspected
drug traffickers. Who said so? Not conspiracy-theory nuts, but the
inspector general of the CIA. Years after the contra war, the agency
s IG produced two reports that conceded the CIA had enlisted the
assistance of alleged drug runners. At the same time Nancy Reagan
was preaching Just Say No to drugs.

As I noted in this column a few months ago when there was a media
hullabaloo over a schlocky biopic of Reagan Reagan was AWOL on one
of the important battles for freedom and democracy in the 1980s:
South Africa. He defended the racist apartheid government there and
claimed as wrongly as could be that South Africa had "eliminated the
segregation that we once had in our own country." And when
Republicans and Democrats joined together in Congress to impose
economic sanctions on the government of South Africa, Reagan vetoed
the measure. In response to that veto, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, a
leader of the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa, said,
"Apartheid will be dismantled, and its victims will remember those
who helped to destroy this evil system. And President Reagan will be
judged harshly by history." Not this week.

The El Mozote episode is, sadly, only one example of violence borne
of Reagan s foreign policy. The troops that did the killing were
supported by his administration because they were fighting leftist
rebels. A 1992 report produced by a UN-sanctioned truth commission
described the awful event:

"On 10 December 1981, in the village of El Mozote in the Department
of Morazan, units of the Atlacatl Battalion detained, without
resistance, all the men, women and children who were in the place&.
Early next morning, 11 December, the soldiers reassembled the entire
population in the square. They separated the men from the women and
children and locked everyone up in different groups in the church,
the convent and various houses."

"During the morning, they proceeded to interrogate, torture and
execute the men in various locations. Around noon, they began taking
the women in groups, separating them from their children and
machine-gunning them. Finally, they killed the children. A group of
children who had been locked in the convent were machine-gunned
through the windows. After exterminating the entire population, the
soldiers set fire to the buildings."

The report noted that "the Atlacatl Battalion was a Rapid Deployment
Infantry Battalion or BIRI, that is, a unit specially trained for
counter-insurgency warfare. It was the first unit of its kind in the
[El Salvadoran] armed forces and had completed its training under
the supervision of United States military advisors, at the beginning
of that year, 1981."

When two reporters Raymond Bonner of The New York Times and Alma
Guillermoprieto of The Washington Post reported the massacre in
January 1982, the Reagan administration denied it had occurred.
Reagan s point-man on Latin America, Elliott Abrams, told Congress
that these reports were no more than commie propaganda. That is, he
lied. (Today, Abrams, that lover of truth and human rights, is a
staff member on Bush s National Security Council responsible for
Middle East matters.) A forensic investigation conducted in the
early 1990s proved that the massacre had happened. And the truth
commission s report noted that "two hundred forty-five cartridge
cases recovered from the El Mozote site were studied. Of these, 184
had discernable headstamps, identifying the ammunition as having
been manufactured for the United States Government at Lake City,
Missouri. ...All of the projectiles except one appear to have been
fired from United States-manufactured M-16 rifles."

Thanks to Ronald Reagan, American tax dollars supported the murder
of hundreds of El Salvadoran villagers. And the UN-backed
commission, after examining 22,000 atrocities that occurred during
the 12-year civil war in El Salvador, attributed 85 percent of the
abuses to the Reagan-assisted right-wing military and its
death-squad allies. Similar patterns transpired in Guatemala and
Honduras in the 1980s.

The El Mozote massacre, though perhaps the largest massacre in
modern Latin American history, is a minor footnote in the history of
the Cold War, but it is, as writer Mark Danner, author of The
Massacre at El Mozote , observed, "a central parable of the Cold
War." It is also a telling tale of Reaganism. The lives of the
people butchered in this small village by U.S.-trained troops were
worth as much of that of the man whose body now lays in a casket
draped with the Stars and Stripes. Media commentators have been
hailing Reagan as heroic, iconic, patriotic and optimistic figure
who led an "American life." It was indeed an American life, but one
with lethal consequences for others. That is as important a piece of
the Reagan story if not more so as his oh-so-sunny and cheery outlook.

I doubt the villagers of El Mozote were thinking about Reagan s
wonderful disposition when made-in-the-USA bullets supplied to their
killers by the U.S. government, in accordance with Reagan s foreign
policy, were piercing their bodies and ending their non-American lives.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=127&u=/ucru/20040609/cm_ucru/reagansshamefullegacy&printer=1

REAGAN'S SHAMEFUL LEGACY
By Ted Rall

Mourn for Us, Not the Proto-Bush

NEW YORK--For a few weeks, it became routine. I heard them dragging
luggage down the hall. They paused in a little lounge near the
dormitory elevator to bid farewell to people they'd met during their
single semester. Those I knew knocked on my door. "What are you
going to do?" I asked. "Where are you going to go?" A shrug. They
were eighteen years old and their bright futures had evaporated.
They had worked hard in junior and senior high school, harder than
most, but none of that mattered now. President Reagan, explained the
form letters from the Office of Financial Aid, had slashed the
federal education budget. Which is why the same grim tableau of
shattered hopes and dreams was playing itself out across the
country. Colleges and universities were evicting their best and
brightest, straight A students, stripping them of scholarships. Some
transferred to less-expensive community colleges; others dropped
into the low-wage workforce. Now, nearly a quarter century later,
they are still less financially secure and less educated than they
should have been. Our nation is poorer for having denied them their
potential.

They were by no means the hardest-hit victims of Reaganism. Reagan's
quack economists trashed scholarships and turned welfare recipients
into homeless people and refused to do anything about the AIDS (news
- web sites) epidemic, all so they could fund extravagant tax cuts
for a tiny sliver of the ultra rich. Their supply-side sales pitch,
that the rich would buy so much stuff from everybody else that the
economy would boom and government coffers would fill up, never
panned out. The Reagan boom lasted just three years and created only
low-wage jobs. When the '80s were over, we were buried in the depths
of recession and a trillion bucks in debt. Poverty grew, cities
decayed, crime rose. It took over a decade to dig out.

Reagan's defenders, people who don't know the facts or choose to
ignore them, claim that "everybody" admired Reagan's ebullient
personality even if some disagreed with his politics. That, like the
Gipper's tall tales about welfare queens and "homeless by choice"
urban campers, is a lie. Millions of Americans cringed at Reagan's
simplistic rhetoric, were terrified that his anti-Soviet "evil
empire" posturing would provoke World War III, and thought that his
appeal to selfishness and greed--a bastardized blend of Adam Smith
and Ayn Rand--brought out the worst in us. We rolled our eyes when
Reagan quipped "There you go again"; what the hell did that mean?
Given that he made flying a living hell (by firing the air traffic
controllers and regulating the airlines), I'm not the only one who
refuses to call Washington National Airport by its new name. His
clown-like dyed hair and rouged cheeks disgusted us. We hated him
during the dark days he made so hideous, and, with all due respect,
we hate him still.

Not everybody buys the myth that Reagan won the Cold War by
demanding that Mikhail Gorbachev "tear down this [Berlin] wall" or
bankrupting the Soviet Union via the arms race--Zbigniew Brezinski's
plot to "draw the Russians into the Afghan trap" by funding the
mujahedeen, Chernobyl and covert U.S. schemes to destabilize the
ruble had more to do with the end of the USSR. Gangsterism replaced
the ossified cult of the state, millions of Russians were reduced to
paupers, revived radical Islamism in Central Asia and eliminated our
sole major ideological and military rival. That increased our
arrogance and insularity, left us in charge of the world and to
blame for everything, paving the road to 9/11. (Reagan even armed
the attacks' future perpetrators.) Anyway, the Cold War isn't over.
In which direction do you think those old ICBMs point today?

The lionizers are correct about one thing: Reagan was one of our
most influential presidents since FDR, whose New Deal safety net he
carefully disassembled. He pioneered policies now being implemented
by George W. Bush: trickle down economics, corporate deregulation,
radicalizing the courts, slithering around inconvenient laws and
international treaties. On the domestic front, he unraveled
America's century-old social contract. What the poor needed was a
kick in the ass, not a handout, said a president whose wealthy
patrons bought him a house and put clothes on his wife Nancy.
National parks were to be exploited for timber and oil, not
protected. The federal tax code, originally conceived to
redistribute wealth from top to bottom, was "reformed" to eradicate
social justice.

Bush also models his approach to foreign policy on that of the
original Teflon President. Reagan elevated unjustifiable military
action to an art. In 1983, anxious to look tough after cutting and
running from Lebanon, Reagan sent marines to topple the Marxist
government of Grenada. His pretext for invading this Caribbean
island was the urgent plight of 500 medical students supposedly
besieged by rampaging mobs. But when they arrived at the airport in
the United States, the quizzical young men and women told reporters
they were confused, never having felt endangered or seen any unrest.

In a bizarre 1985 effort to free a few American hostages being held
in Lebanon, Reagan authorized the sale of 107 tons of anti-tank and
anti-aircraft missiles to Iran, at the time one of our staunchest
enemies, with the proceeds to be used to fund rightist death squads
in Nicaragua--something Congress had expressly forbidden him to do.
Evidence strongly suggests that Iran-Contra was at least his second
dirty deal with Islamic Iran, the first being the October Surprise,
which delayed the release of the Iranian embassy hostages until
after the 1980 election was over. Ronald Reagan (news - web sites)
eventually admitted to "trading arms for hostages," yet avoided
prosecution for treason and the death penalty.

Reagan, like Bush 43, technically served in the military yet
studiously avoided combat. Both men were physically robust,
intellectually inadequate, poorly traveled former governors renowned
for stabbing friends on the back--Reagan when he named names during
McCarthyism. Both appointed former generals as secretaries of state
and enemies of the environment to head the Department of the
Interior. Both refused to read detailed briefings, worked short
hours, behaved erratically in public appearances, ducked questions
about sordid pasts, and relied on Christianist (the radical right
equivalent of Islamist) depictions of foes as "evil" and America,
invariably as embodied by himself and the Republicans, as "good."
Based on intelligence as phony as that floated to justify the war
against Iraq (news - web sites), Reagan bombed Muslim Libya.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=525034&section=news

Dark Reagan legacy in Central America
Mon June 07, 2004 05:09 PM ET
By Ivan Castro

MANAGUA, Nicaragua (Reuters) - Ronald Reagan has drawn glowing
praise world-wide since his death but in Central America many
remember the former U.S. president as a Cold War radical whose
support for right-wing leaders and rebels cost tens of thousands of
lives.

The impoverished countries of Central America erupted in violence in
the 1980s when Reagan was president, and his administration spent
millions of dollars in vicious civil wars.

In the name of fighting communism in America's "back yard," Reagan
supported Contra rebels against the revolutionary Sandinista
government in Nicaragua and helped prop up repressive leaders that
faced leftist insurgencies in El Salvador and Guatemala.

Since Reagan's death on Saturday, the reaction in Central America
has been mixed.

"We don't celebrate any death, but we must be honest, we will not
start saying now that President Reagan respected international law,
that he treated Nicaragua well. We're not going to lie," said Daniel
Ortega, the Sandinista president who led Nicaragua during the war
against the Contra rebels.

Miguel D'Escoto, the former Sandinista foreign minister, added:
"There is not the least doubt that President Reagan did Nicaragua
much harm, caused many deaths."

An estimated 300,000 people died in Central America's civil wars,
about half during Reagan's two terms in office. Many were civilians
tortured and murdered by army troops or death squads linked to armed
forces that received heavy U.S. support, human rights groups say.

"A lot of extremely nasty things were going on ... and the Reagan
administration really defended and even actively supported some of
the worst human rights violators in the hemisphere," said Daniel
Wilkinson of Human Rights Watch in New York.

IRAN-CONTRA SCANDAL

Reagan's Central America policy came under criticism at home when
the Iran-Contra scandal unfolded, exposing U.S. secret sales of arms
to Iran to help fund the Contras, forbidden by the U.S. Congress.

"There was no issue and probably has been no issue since Vietnam
that has divided the American public and Congress more than Reagan
administration policy in Central America," said Russell Crandall at
the U.S.-based Council on Foreign Relations.

Reagan did not create the crises in Central America -- the
Sandinistas seized power in a revolution months before he took
office, El Salvador was already falling into chaos and Guatemala's
civil war had been going on for two decades.

But critics said his hard line against communism killed off any
hopes for negotiated settlements, polarised the region and fed
violence.

"Ronald Reagan's name is linked to the darkest dictatorships in the
history of Guatemala," said Mario Polanco, who heads a group set up
by families of many who died.
Reagan does have admirers in the region who say his tough stance
halted the communist threat and ultimately brought democracy.

His 1983 invasion of the Caribbean island of Grenada to oust a
Marxist government and rescue stranded Americans was very popular.

Nicaraguan President Enrique Bolanos said Reagan was "a great
defender of Nicaragua's return to democracy and all Nicaraguans who
believe in democracy recognise that legacy."

And in El Salvador, President Tony Saca said Reagan helped the
country in "its most difficult moments."

Allies say the proof is at the ballot box -- since the end of the
region's civil wars, voters have repeatedly elected conservative,
pro-Washington governments.

The region remains sharply divided, however, and the leftist leaders
that went to war with U.S.-backed forces in Nicaragua and El
Salvador still pull in more than 35 percent of the national vote.
hantayo
2004-06-12 05:36:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of the
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame war, but
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless Ronald
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the United
States of America.
I also express my pro-American views. And while I wish Mr. Reagan's
family well, having watched a great deal of the funeral, and having
remembered the losses in my own live, I have too much respect for
our country to allow history to be rewritten in such a manner.
Reagan was a deeply flawed president, he wasn't a force of freedom
and democracy for most of the world, and he didn't have a positive
impact of most of it, either.
Honor the memory of the man if you wish -- but don't rewrite history
in order to do it.
Kathie
http://www.buzzflash.com/theangryliberal/04/06/tal04006.html
June 8, 2004
The Real Legacy of Ronald Reagan
by The Angry Liberal
Before I get into a discussion of Ronald Reagan, the president, I
would like to make a few remarks about Ronald Reagan, the man. His
death, though not a surprise to anyone, has surely grieved his
friends, family, and a good deal of folks around the world. For
that, I am sorry. Despite my ongoing opposition to nearly every one
of Reagan's policies, there was one incident during his presidency
that I truly enjoyed. During a joint press conference with Soviet
President Mikhail Gorbachev in which a nuclear missile treaty was
discussed, Reagan tossed out the phrase, "Trust, but verify." Having
heard Reagan use that phrase too many times when discussing the
Soviets, Gorbachev rolled his eyes and said, "You always say that."
Reagan's reply: "Well, I like it." This remark was a graceful and
good-natured deflection of a mild criticism delivered from the
principle adversary of Reagan's time. I will miss the man who said
that. However, I will surely not miss the leader who began the
degradation of the office of the President of the United States.
At this point, I'm going to skip the accomplishments of the Reagan
administration. If you want to believe that Reagan won the Cold War,
I'm not going to argue. If you think Reagan should have been
impeached for selling arms to Iran and diverting the profits to the
rebels in Nicaragua, be my guest. What I am going to assert is the
following: Reagan's purported belief that less government is better
than more government has been completely ignored by the membership
of his own party. Moreover, Reagan's belief that government is the
problem, rather than the solution, has become a self-fulfilling
prophecy. After three Republican presidents (actually I count three
and a half by adding Clinton to this group), the United States
government is bigger, less efficient, more burdensome on the average
American, and much more dangerous to us all.
While Reagan spoke of making government smaller and more efficient,
Republicans instead exploded the size of government. Since 1980,
government expenditures have increased fourfold. Sixty percent of
this government growth occurred under "conservatives" Reagan and
Bushes, Jr. and Sr. With government under the control of a
"conservative" for 16 of the last 24 years, shouldn't we have a
smaller government by now? We certainly would if Republicans really
believed in smaller government.
While Reagan spoke of making government more efficient, Republicans
today have made the government less efficient than ever. Our
government's efficiency, when examined by the most basic measure of
dollars-in versus services-out, is a disaster. With a $7.2 trillion
deficit, taxpayers are seeing over $300 billion tax dollars a year
go to pay interest on the money that America borrowed to run the
government. Almost 65% of America's debt since the Revolutionary War
was created during the presidencies of Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II.
In rough terms, over 8% of the taxes Americans pay this year will go
toward paying interest on the conservative legacy. Imagine that: If
Reagan and the Bushes would have practiced actual conservatism, our
taxes could be lowered 8% across the board with absolutely no impact
on the government. The next time you are admiring the chunk of money
that the federal government takes from your paycheck, remember that
8% of that was mandated by your "conservative" government. And while
you're at it, remember that the 8% buys you absolutely nothing, and
that tax money is due every year for the rest of your life. So much
for efficient government.
I guess the most dangerous legacy of Ronald Reagan was that he
ushered in an era in which a president suddenly didn't need to be
particularly smart. He didn't need to know anything about foreign
affairs. He didn't need to know anything about the federal
government. Heck, he didn't even need to enact policies that most
Americans supported. After Reagan, all a president needed to be
elected was charm, wit, and a "can-do, but won't" attitude. Throw in
the ability to read a teleprompter while looking fairly sincere, and
America is suddenly renaming an airport after you. Simply put,
Ronald Reagan sold America on the idea that intelligence, a strong
work ethic, expertise, knowledge, and experience weren't necessary
for one to hold the most difficult job on the planet. Reagan wasn't
a strong president, but he played one on television. And to the
shame of America, that was good enough for most of us.
Without the Ronald Reagan presidency, there would certainly be no
George W. Bush presidency. After Reagan's presidency entered the
history books, Americans started believing that presidential
candidates no longer needed a strong political resume. True, Dubya
brought down the presidential qualification bar to an all-time low
when he entered office. But if an actor could run the nation for
eight years, electing a dim, arrogant frat boy who recently traded
alcohol for Jesus actually seemed within the realm of possibility. I
mean, how hard could being the most powerful man on earth be, anyway?
Unfortunately, America has seen that question answered after
September 11. It turns out that competence is a still virtue for the
leader of the free world. For instance, if you want to stop
terrorism, wouldn't it be a good idea to send troops to where the
terrorists are? Instead, we've seen a flustered Bush trying to kill
everybody he misperceives as a threat to the United States. A
competent president could have easily figured out that Saddam
Hussein represented no threat to the United States and therefore
concentrated America's resources on fighting the real terrorists.
Bush, on the other hand, has wasted the lives of over 800 American
soldiers and about $200 billion tax dollars. He has destroyed the
reputation of the United States all over the world with lies,
threats, and baseless preemptive war. He has littered Iraq with
bodies, each one a tribute to his inability to understand the nature
of the threat to our security. And in doing so, Bush is making new
enemies of America faster than he can kill the old ones. The bottom
line here is Bush has made America weaker and less safe because he
isn't remotely up to the job of running the United States. And the
mighty door that once kept incompetent people like George W. Bush
from becoming president was battered down by one Ronald Wilson Reagan.
That door wasn't locked, by the way. It just had a sign above the
handle that said, "Pull."
http://www.tompaine.com/print/reagans_bloody_legacy.php
Reagan's Bloody Legacy
David Corn
June 09, 2004
David Corn writes a twice-monthly column for TomPaine.com. Corn is
the Washington editor of The Nation and is the author of The Lies of
George W. Bush: Mastering the Politics of Deception (Crown Publishers).
Aren't we mature enough as a democracy to memorialize our leaders
with clear eyes? While the nation mourns one of its most popular
presidents, it must be truthful in assessing his leadership. The
very resolve being celebrated on op-ed pages across the country also
led Reagan to ignore and sometimes sanction the brutality being
committed in the name of fighting the "evil empire."
**************
I have a vision. On the day that Ronald Reagan's remains are
transported from the U.S. Capitol to the National Cathedral for the
funeral services, the hearse will pass 800 black crosses.
Each cross will represent one of the men, women and children who
were killed by the Salvadoran military in the village of El Mozote
in December 1981. Each would be a reminder that the dead man now
celebrated in the media as a lover of freedom and democracy oversaw
a foreign policy that empowered and enabled murderous brutes and
thugs in the name of anti-Sovietism. Many innocents in other lands
paid dearly for Reagan s crusade.
Throughout his presidency, Reagan made nice with dictators no matter
how nefarious as long as they parroted his opposition to communism.
As soon as he entered the White House, his administration tried to
normalize relations with Augusto Pinochet, the dictator of Chile,
who was responsible for a bloody coup that overthrew a
democratically elected (but socialist) government. The Reaganites
also cozied up to the fascistic and anti-Semitic junta of Argentina,
which tortured, slaughtered and disappeared its political opponents.
And don't forget Reagan s attempt to woo Saddam Hussein, even after
it was known that Hussein had used chemical weapons. (Reagan
assigned this task to Donald Rumsfeld.)
Reagan may have pushed for democracy and human rights in the Soviet
bloc, but he cared little for these values elsewhere. He
dramatically urged the destruction of the Berlin Wall and supported
the Solidarity movement in Poland. But he sent money and assistance
to regimes that repressed and murdered their people. While visiting
Ferdinand Marcos, the Filipino dictator, Reagan s vice president,
George H.W. Bush, toasted Marcos' "adherence to democratic
principles." People lost their freedom or died because Reagan and
his lieutenants could not see beyond their ideological blinders and
cut deals with miscreants who shared their anti-Moscow mantra. Not
only did Reagan embolden torturers and murders, but the CIA
following his order to support the contra rebels in Nicaragua (who
were trying to oust the socialist Sandinistas) worked with suspected
drug traffickers. Who said so? Not conspiracy-theory nuts, but the
inspector general of the CIA. Years after the contra war, the agency
s IG produced two reports that conceded the CIA had enlisted the
assistance of alleged drug runners. At the same time Nancy Reagan
was preaching Just Say No to drugs.
As I noted in this column a few months ago when there was a media
hullabaloo over a schlocky biopic of Reagan Reagan was AWOL on one
South Africa. He defended the racist apartheid government there and
claimed as wrongly as could be that South Africa had "eliminated the
segregation that we once had in our own country." And when
Republicans and Democrats joined together in Congress to impose
economic sanctions on the government of South Africa, Reagan vetoed
the measure. In response to that veto, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, a
leader of the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa, said,
"Apartheid will be dismantled, and its victims will remember those
who helped to destroy this evil system. And President Reagan will be
judged harshly by history." Not this week.
The El Mozote episode is, sadly, only one example of violence borne
of Reagan s foreign policy. The troops that did the killing were
supported by his administration because they were fighting leftist
rebels. A 1992 report produced by a UN-sanctioned truth commission
"On 10 December 1981, in the village of El Mozote in the Department
of Morazan, units of the Atlacatl Battalion detained, without
resistance, all the men, women and children who were in the place&.
Early next morning, 11 December, the soldiers reassembled the entire
population in the square. They separated the men from the women and
children and locked everyone up in different groups in the church,
the convent and various houses."
"During the morning, they proceeded to interrogate, torture and
execute the men in various locations. Around noon, they began taking
the women in groups, separating them from their children and
machine-gunning them. Finally, they killed the children. A group of
children who had been locked in the convent were machine-gunned
through the windows. After exterminating the entire population, the
soldiers set fire to the buildings."
The report noted that "the Atlacatl Battalion was a Rapid Deployment
Infantry Battalion or BIRI, that is, a unit specially trained for
counter-insurgency warfare. It was the first unit of its kind in the
[El Salvadoran] armed forces and had completed its training under
the supervision of United States military advisors, at the beginning
of that year, 1981."
When two reporters Raymond Bonner of The New York Times and Alma
Guillermoprieto of The Washington Post reported the massacre in
January 1982, the Reagan administration denied it had occurred.
Reagan s point-man on Latin America, Elliott Abrams, told Congress
that these reports were no more than commie propaganda. That is, he
lied. (Today, Abrams, that lover of truth and human rights, is a
staff member on Bush s National Security Council responsible for
Middle East matters.) A forensic investigation conducted in the
early 1990s proved that the massacre had happened. And the truth
commission s report noted that "two hundred forty-five cartridge
cases recovered from the El Mozote site were studied. Of these, 184
had discernable headstamps, identifying the ammunition as having
been manufactured for the United States Government at Lake City,
Missouri. ...All of the projectiles except one appear to have been
fired from United States-manufactured M-16 rifles."
Thanks to Ronald Reagan, American tax dollars supported the murder
of hundreds of El Salvadoran villagers. And the UN-backed
commission, after examining 22,000 atrocities that occurred during
the 12-year civil war in El Salvador, attributed 85 percent of the
abuses to the Reagan-assisted right-wing military and its
death-squad allies. Similar patterns transpired in Guatemala and
Honduras in the 1980s.
The El Mozote massacre, though perhaps the largest massacre in
modern Latin American history, is a minor footnote in the history of
the Cold War, but it is, as writer Mark Danner, author of The
Massacre at El Mozote , observed, "a central parable of the Cold
War." It is also a telling tale of Reaganism. The lives of the
people butchered in this small village by U.S.-trained troops were
worth as much of that of the man whose body now lays in a casket
draped with the Stars and Stripes. Media commentators have been
hailing Reagan as heroic, iconic, patriotic and optimistic figure
who led an "American life." It was indeed an American life, but one
with lethal consequences for others. That is as important a piece of
the Reagan story if not more so as his oh-so-sunny and cheery outlook.
I doubt the villagers of El Mozote were thinking about Reagan s
wonderful disposition when made-in-the-USA bullets supplied to their
killers by the U.S. government, in accordance with Reagan s foreign
policy, were piercing their bodies and ending their non-American lives.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=127&u=/ucru/20040609/cm_ucru/reagansshamefullegacy&printer=1
Post by Kath
REAGAN'S SHAMEFUL LEGACY
By Ted Rall
Mourn for Us, Not the Proto-Bush
NEW YORK--For a few weeks, it became routine. I heard them dragging
luggage down the hall. They paused in a little lounge near the
dormitory elevator to bid farewell to people they'd met during their
single semester. Those I knew knocked on my door. "What are you
going to do?" I asked. "Where are you going to go?" A shrug. They
were eighteen years old and their bright futures had evaporated.
They had worked hard in junior and senior high school, harder than
most, but none of that mattered now. President Reagan, explained the
form letters from the Office of Financial Aid, had slashed the
federal education budget. Which is why the same grim tableau of
shattered hopes and dreams was playing itself out across the
country. Colleges and universities were evicting their best and
brightest, straight A students, stripping them of scholarships. Some
transferred to less-expensive community colleges; others dropped
into the low-wage workforce. Now, nearly a quarter century later,
they are still less financially secure and less educated than they
should have been. Our nation is poorer for having denied them their
potential.
They were by no means the hardest-hit victims of Reaganism. Reagan's
quack economists trashed scholarships and turned welfare recipients
into homeless people and refused to do anything about the AIDS (news
- web sites) epidemic, all so they could fund extravagant tax cuts
for a tiny sliver of the ultra rich. Their supply-side sales pitch,
that the rich would buy so much stuff from everybody else that the
economy would boom and government coffers would fill up, never
panned out. The Reagan boom lasted just three years and created only
low-wage jobs. When the '80s were over, we were buried in the depths
of recession and a trillion bucks in debt. Poverty grew, cities
decayed, crime rose. It took over a decade to dig out.
Reagan's defenders, people who don't know the facts or choose to
ignore them, claim that "everybody" admired Reagan's ebullient
personality even if some disagreed with his politics. That, like the
Gipper's tall tales about welfare queens and "homeless by choice"
urban campers, is a lie. Millions of Americans cringed at Reagan's
simplistic rhetoric, were terrified that his anti-Soviet "evil
empire" posturing would provoke World War III, and thought that his
appeal to selfishness and greed--a bastardized blend of Adam Smith
and Ayn Rand--brought out the worst in us. We rolled our eyes when
Reagan quipped "There you go again"; what the hell did that mean?
Given that he made flying a living hell (by firing the air traffic
controllers and regulating the airlines), I'm not the only one who
refuses to call Washington National Airport by its new name. His
clown-like dyed hair and rouged cheeks disgusted us. We hated him
during the dark days he made so hideous, and, with all due respect,
we hate him still.
Not everybody buys the myth that Reagan won the Cold War by
demanding that Mikhail Gorbachev "tear down this [Berlin] wall" or
bankrupting the Soviet Union via the arms race--Zbigniew Brezinski's
plot to "draw the Russians into the Afghan trap" by funding the
mujahedeen, Chernobyl and covert U.S. schemes to destabilize the
ruble had more to do with the end of the USSR. Gangsterism replaced
the ossified cult of the state, millions of Russians were reduced to
paupers, revived radical Islamism in Central Asia and eliminated our
sole major ideological and military rival. That increased our
arrogance and insularity, left us in charge of the world and to
blame for everything, paving the road to 9/11. (Reagan even armed
the attacks' future perpetrators.) Anyway, the Cold War isn't over.
In which direction do you think those old ICBMs point today?
The lionizers are correct about one thing: Reagan was one of our
most influential presidents since FDR, whose New Deal safety net he
carefully disassembled. He pioneered policies now being implemented
by George W. Bush: trickle down economics, corporate deregulation,
radicalizing the courts, slithering around inconvenient laws and
international treaties. On the domestic front, he unraveled
America's century-old social contract. What the poor needed was a
kick in the ass, not a handout, said a president whose wealthy
patrons bought him a house and put clothes on his wife Nancy.
National parks were to be exploited for timber and oil, not
protected. The federal tax code, originally conceived to
redistribute wealth from top to bottom, was "reformed" to eradicate
social justice.
Bush also models his approach to foreign policy on that of the
original Teflon President. Reagan elevated unjustifiable military
action to an art. In 1983, anxious to look tough after cutting and
running from Lebanon, Reagan sent marines to topple the Marxist
government of Grenada. His pretext for invading this Caribbean
island was the urgent plight of 500 medical students supposedly
besieged by rampaging mobs. But when they arrived at the airport in
the United States, the quizzical young men and women told reporters
they were confused, never having felt endangered or seen any unrest.
In a bizarre 1985 effort to free a few American hostages being held
in Lebanon, Reagan authorized the sale of 107 tons of anti-tank and
anti-aircraft missiles to Iran, at the time one of our staunchest
enemies, with the proceeds to be used to fund rightist death squads
in Nicaragua--something Congress had expressly forbidden him to do.
Evidence strongly suggests that Iran-Contra was at least his second
dirty deal with Islamic Iran, the first being the October Surprise,
which delayed the release of the Iranian embassy hostages until
after the 1980 election was over. Ronald Reagan (news - web sites)
eventually admitted to "trading arms for hostages," yet avoided
prosecution for treason and the death penalty.
Reagan, like Bush 43, technically served in the military yet
studiously avoided combat. Both men were physically robust,
intellectually inadequate, poorly traveled former governors renowned
for stabbing friends on the back--Reagan when he named names during
McCarthyism. Both appointed former generals as secretaries of state
and enemies of the environment to head the Department of the
Interior. Both refused to read detailed briefings, worked short
hours, behaved erratically in public appearances, ducked questions
about sordid pasts, and relied on Christianist (the radical right
equivalent of Islamist) depictions of foes as "evil" and America,
invariably as embodied by himself and the Republicans, as "good."
Based on intelligence as phony as that floated to justify the war
against Iraq (news - web sites), Reagan bombed Muslim Libya.
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=525034&section=news
Post by Kath
Dark Reagan legacy in Central America
Mon June 07, 2004 05:09 PM ET
By Ivan Castro
MANAGUA, Nicaragua (Reuters) - Ronald Reagan has drawn glowing
praise world-wide since his death but in Central America many
remember the former U.S. president as a Cold War radical whose
support for right-wing leaders and rebels cost tens of thousands of
lives.
The impoverished countries of Central America erupted in violence in
the 1980s when Reagan was president, and his administration spent
millions of dollars in vicious civil wars.
In the name of fighting communism in America's "back yard," Reagan
supported Contra rebels against the revolutionary Sandinista
government in Nicaragua and helped prop up repressive leaders that
faced leftist insurgencies in El Salvador and Guatemala.
Since Reagan's death on Saturday, the reaction in Central America
has been mixed.
"We don't celebrate any death, but we must be honest, we will not
start saying now that President Reagan respected international law,
that he treated Nicaragua well. We're not going to lie," said Daniel
Ortega, the Sandinista president who led Nicaragua during the war
against the Contra rebels.
"There is not the least doubt that President Reagan did Nicaragua
much harm, caused many deaths."
An estimated 300,000 people died in Central America's civil wars,
about half during Reagan's two terms in office. Many were civilians
tortured and murdered by army troops or death squads linked to armed
forces that received heavy U.S. support, human rights groups say.
"A lot of extremely nasty things were going on ... and the Reagan
administration really defended and even actively supported some of
the worst human rights violators in the hemisphere," said Daniel
Wilkinson of Human Rights Watch in New York.
IRAN-CONTRA SCANDAL
Reagan's Central America policy came under criticism at home when
the Iran-Contra scandal unfolded, exposing U.S. secret sales of arms
to Iran to help fund the Contras, forbidden by the U.S. Congress.
"There was no issue and probably has been no issue since Vietnam
that has divided the American public and Congress more than Reagan
administration policy in Central America," said Russell Crandall at
the U.S.-based Council on Foreign Relations.
Reagan did not create the crises in Central America -- the
Sandinistas seized power in a revolution months before he took
office, El Salvador was already falling into chaos and Guatemala's
civil war had been going on for two decades.
But critics said his hard line against communism killed off any
hopes for negotiated settlements, polarised the region and fed
violence.
"Ronald Reagan's name is linked to the darkest dictatorships in the
history of Guatemala," said Mario Polanco, who heads a group set up
by families of many who died.
Reagan does have admirers in the region who say his tough stance
halted the communist threat and ultimately brought democracy.
His 1983 invasion of the Caribbean island of Grenada to oust a
Marxist government and rescue stranded Americans was very popular.
Nicaraguan President Enrique Bolanos said Reagan was "a great
defender of Nicaragua's return to democracy and all Nicaraguans who
believe in democracy recognise that legacy."
And in El Salvador, President Tony Saca said Reagan helped the
country in "its most difficult moments."
Allies say the proof is at the ballot box -- since the end of the
region's civil wars, voters have repeatedly elected conservative,
pro-Washington governments.
The region remains sharply divided, however, and the leftist leaders
that went to war with U.S.-backed forces in Nicaragua and El
Salvador still pull in more than 35 percent of the national vote.
Thanks for the sanity Kath. :-) But will people ever be able to use their
mind & open their eyes - I seriously doubt it. They are way too emotional...
Kathy K.
Kath
2004-06-12 12:44:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by hantayo
Thanks for the sanity Kath. :-) But will people ever be able to use their
mind & open their eyes - I seriously doubt it. They are way too emotional...
Kathy K.
Hero worship isn't honor ... Reagan's presidency was horribly
flawed, but from the remarks of people who spoke of him, he was a
decent man. He obviously raised good, decent children and it was
apparent to all that he adored his wife and she him. Those are some
attributes of a kind person.

That he wasn't a very good president, pales in comparison, I think.
I guess it all depends on what one values.

Kathie
Rob Duncan
2004-06-12 05:56:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of the
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame war, but
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless Ronald
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the United
States of America.
I also express my pro-American views. And while I wish Mr. Reagan's
family well, having watched a great deal of the funeral, and having
remembered the losses in my own live, I have too much respect for
our country to allow history to be rewritten in such a manner.
Reagan was a deeply flawed president, he wasn't a force of freedom
and democracy for most of the world, and he didn't have a positive
impact of most of it, either.
Honor the memory of the man if you wish -- but don't rewrite history
in order to do it.
Kathie
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism. He was
a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin idiot.


Rob
hantayo
2004-06-12 06:29:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Debra Whelan
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of
the
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame
war,
Post by Debra Whelan
but
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless
Ronald
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the
United
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
States of America.
I also express my pro-American views. And while I wish Mr. Reagan's
family well, having watched a great deal of the funeral, and having
remembered the losses in my own live, I have too much respect for
our country to allow history to be rewritten in such a manner.
Reagan was a deeply flawed president, he wasn't a force of freedom
and democracy for most of the world, and he didn't have a positive
impact of most of it, either.
Honor the memory of the man if you wish -- but don't rewrite history
in order to do it.
Kathie
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism. He was
a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin idiot.
Rob
Rob - do you feel like a big man now? Who is the idiot & who is stupid? Do
you happen to have a mirror handy? If you do - take a peek. Yup - it's like:
'The Sheep Look Up'. Get a clue & do some reading.
Kathy K.
Kath
2004-06-12 12:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Rob Duncan
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism. He
was a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin
idiot.
Rob - do you feel like a big man now? Who is the idiot & who is stupid? Do
'The Sheep Look Up'. Get a clue & do some reading.
Kathy K.
Don't worry about it, Kath. Look who's posted it ... did you really
expect any more?

Ronald Reagan, by everyone's account -- friend and political foe --
was a kind gentleman. Emphasis on the word "gentleman." It was one
of the things that his son *specifically* mentioned at his funeral
last night.

Rob apparently thinks that the way to honor Reagan's memory is to
behave in a way that denigrates everything that for which he stood
... how odd.

Kathie
LasVegasJeweler1
2004-06-12 16:21:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism
An intelligent person knows that ad-hominen attacks worthless in the
support of a idea. Maybe President Regan DID save the human race from
communism. I am inclined to believe that communism collapsed because of it's
internal contradictions. In any event, the use of scatological rhetoric only
demonstrates that the writer needs to consider whether or not his contentions
will be taken seriously. In this case, I don't think so. Anyone else agree?
Rob Duncan
2004-06-13 02:55:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by LasVegasJeweler1
Post by Rob Duncan
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism
An intelligent person knows that ad-hominen attacks worthless in the
support of a idea. Maybe President Regan DID save the human race from
communism. I am inclined to believe that communism collapsed because of it's
internal contradictions. In any event, the use of scatological rhetoric only
demonstrates that the writer needs to consider whether or not his contentions
will be taken seriously. In this case, I don't think so. Anyone else agree?
Ive recieved MORE THAN A FEW emails from people who agree. But thats not
even the point. I dont give a damn if anyone agrees. I dont give a hoot
if anyone takes my "contentions seriously", either... Im simply exposing
Kathie for the dumbfuck that she is. Could you imagine the bitching and
moaning that would have poured from her maw had this been done to a liberal
mourning the loss of Carter or Clinton? Un-fucking-believable. Kathie,
youre an ass.


Rob
Rob Duncan
2004-06-13 02:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kath
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Rob Duncan
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism. He
was a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin
idiot.
Rob - do you feel like a big man now? Who is the idiot & who is stupid? Do
'The Sheep Look Up'. Get a clue & do some reading.
Kathy K.
Don't worry about it, Kath. Look who's posted it ... did you really
expect any more?
Ronald Reagan, by everyone's account -- friend and political foe --
was a kind gentleman. Emphasis on the word "gentleman." It was one
of the things that his son *specifically* mentioned at his funeral
last night.
Rob apparently thinks that the way to honor Reagan's memory is to
behave in a way that denigrates everything that for which he stood
... how odd.
Kathie
Im simply responding to a dumbass who stomps right on top of someone while
theyre expressing grief. A sadness so strong that it brought fear to her
that it may induce an exacerbation... you stupid fuck-nut. How fucking
stupid, ignorant, and callous can you get? Stay tuned, eh? Im sure youll
try and surpass your own pathetic retardation here pretty soon.

You turn a persons simple message of respect, and loss, into an event to
showcase your dumbfuck ideals? Un-fucking-believable! Christ Kathie, you
are stupid. Stump stupid. Sit and spin... moron. You must have one hell
of a lot of brain damage to be so fucking stupid. Im suprised you can type,
much less read and write.


Rob
John
2004-06-12 07:22:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism. He was
a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin idiot.
Rob
Spoken like a true Republican.

John the houseboy
Rob Duncan
2004-06-12 08:16:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Rob Duncan
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism. He was
a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin idiot.
Rob
Spoken like a true Republican.
John the houseboy
Sorry John, Im not a republican. Never have been. Im an independent to the
core. On each and every issue, in fact. Kathies reply to our initial
poster was much less tastefull than my reply to Kathie. (the dumbass who
cant think before replying) Maybe both you, Kathy, and Kathie, all need to
read the initial post a second time and then try and convince me Kathies
post was appropriate? Huh? Wanna try? Wanna join Kathie in the
shit-house? Her post was an innapropriate responce to someone who clearly
mourns the death of a person she obviously liked and respected. Kathie
needs to take her big fucking mouth, and her mother fucking politics, and
shove it right up her ass, right next to her head.

Imagine a person interjecting dumbass politics on the day of Kennedys
burial. Kathie go fuck yourself. Were sick of you. Im speaking for dozens
of people btw. So shut your fucking mouth for once.


Rob
Kath
2004-06-12 12:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by John
Post by Rob Duncan
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism. He was
a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin idiot.
Rob
Spoken like a true Republican.
John the houseboy
Reagan wouldn't have done that ... by everyone's account, he was a
gentleman. Of course, he started as a Democrat ... ;-)

Kathie
ChuckMSRD
2004-06-12 20:11:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kath
Reagan wouldn't have done that ... by everyone's account, he was a
gentleman. Of course, he started as a Democrat ... ;-)
Kathie
Good example of how the dems have moved way left. The dems left Reagan (and my
Mom) the did not leave them.

Chuck
Michael
2004-06-12 10:22:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress
of the loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and
democracy in the world! You may not agree with his views, but you
must admit he had a profound and positive impact on the world. Not
looking for a flame war, but must express my conservative and pro
American view point. God bless Ronald Reagan and his family in
this time of their sorry and God bless the United States of America.
I also express my pro-American views. And while I wish Mr. Reagan's
family well, having watched a great deal of the funeral, and having
remembered the losses in my own live, I have too much respect for
our country to allow history to be rewritten in such a manner.
Reagan was a deeply flawed president, he wasn't a force of freedom
and democracy for most of the world, and he didn't have a positive
impact of most of it, either.
Honor the memory of the man if you wish -- but don't rewrite history
in order to do it.
Kathie
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and
stupidity goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from
communism. He was a good man. He was a great politician. He was a
great leader. And he saved this country from going down the tubes.
Kathie, youre a fuckin idiot.
Rob
Rob... the Soviet Union itself saved mankind from communism by collapsing
into the rubble of its own contradictions.

All Reagan did was make the world pay attention while it began... and he
wasn't in office long enough to see the inevitable happen on his watch.

((U))
M
Aleric
2004-06-12 22:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Rob... the Soviet Union itself saved mankind from communism by collapsing
into the rubble of its own contradictions.
All Reagan did was make the world pay attention while it began... and he
wasn't in office long enough to see the inevitable happen on his watch.
((U))
M
I agree (to an extent). Communism was doomed. The question was when and how
the demise would occur. I think some of the stuff Reagan did (SDI, the
rhetoric, etc) helped hasten the demise, but way too much credit has been
given to him for the collapse itself, (IMO). Mikhail Gorbachev played an
equally important role in the drama. With different leaders on both sides
during this time, the outcome might have been quite different (e.g. bloodier
and drawn out) . In any case, it's all speculation.

I think Gorbachev was a great statesman and was nice to see him at the
funeral.

Bob
ChuckMSRD
2004-06-12 11:31:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
He saved mankind from communism. He was
a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin idiot.
LOL The Carter years are Kathies idea of economic prosperity and US pride.
Kelly
2004-06-12 13:25:41 UTC
Permalink
...and so it begins. I wish that I had more knowledge of politics as
it was happening in the '80's. Most of what was going on in the late
'70's and '80's I remember by how policies affected my parent's (and
my life). I was 17 when Reagan became president. About the only
positive thing Reagan did for me and my husband was to make sure
Robert became an avid union member and supporter and I became a
regular voter.

Looking back, after living through his brand of economics, I realize
that he was an "old school" father figure, who ruled with a harsh hand
and knew that his 'children', the American people, would not
understand what he had done for them until well after they grew up.
We had been through a hard time in the '70's and our two Presidents
before him were trying to make us feel better through our sorrow and
dispair. Reagan was the one that said, "The pity party is OVER! We
are Americans, let's act like it!" He knew from the past that a show
of weakness would cause us to be 'overrun by the Communists'. In a
sad way, he was probably right. Thank God Gorbachev was elected at
the same time. I don't know if there is another man at that time in
the USSR who could have balanced his pride with the needs of the
people. They both achieved an end to the Cold War, but it was at a
great cost to Americans. A war would have been a greater cost (as we
are seeing now--but Iraq is nothing compared to a war with the
Soviets).

I read that some people were able to start businesses under Reagan's
policies. Blah, blah, blah. The rich got richer and the poor got
poorer. Robin Hood in reverse. My husband and I were just starting
out and when his job disintegrated, the only place he could find work
was 7 states away. We lost our house, lived in a travel trailer for
two years and did lose much time with our family as we weren't able to
come back to our home state for 13 years. Thank you Bill Clinton for
making available the resources (good jobs) we needed to be able to get
back home!

Reagan taught us that you can't depend on the government and you can't
depend on things being good forever. We definitely have no
compassionate for the American government, Republican, Democrat, or
otherwise. Reagan was a smart man. If I had to choose between him
and blubbering George, I would vote for Reagan and then apologize to
my children for the next four years. Reagan is definitely the lesser
of the two evils--taken literally.

Kelly

PS. Rob--your statements right back atcha. You can disagree without
being an ass.
Post by Debra Whelan
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of
the
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame war,
but
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless
Ronald
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the
United
Post by Kath
Post by Debra Whelan
States of America.
I also express my pro-American views. And while I wish Mr. Reagan's
family well, having watched a great deal of the funeral, and having
remembered the losses in my own live, I have too much respect for
our country to allow history to be rewritten in such a manner.
Reagan was a deeply flawed president, he wasn't a force of freedom
and democracy for most of the world, and he didn't have a positive
impact of most of it, either.
Honor the memory of the man if you wish -- but don't rewrite history
in order to do it.
Kathie
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism. He was
a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin idiot.
Rob
laura davis doe
2004-06-12 15:48:30 UTC
Permalink
It was Rob Duncan who stood up in class and shouted ;
Post by Rob Duncan
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism. He was
a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin idiot.
Rob
Reagan would have washed your mouth out with soap, Rob. He was polite, at
the very least.
Lo
Kath
2004-06-12 17:45:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by laura davis doe
It was Rob Duncan who stood up in class and shouted ;
Post by Rob Duncan
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism. He was
a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin idiot.
Reagan would have washed your mouth out with soap, Rob. He was polite, at
the very least.
From what I've read, Reagan didn't have much use for people who
acted like that, and didn't spend much time on them.

KKT
Rob Duncan
2004-06-13 02:59:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kath
Post by laura davis doe
It was Rob Duncan who stood up in class and shouted ;
Post by Rob Duncan
Oh go fuck yourself you dumb piece of shit. Your ignorance and stupidity
goes unmatched in world history. He saved mankind from communism. He was
a good man. He was a great politician. He was a great leader. And he
saved this country from going down the tubes. Kathie, youre a fuckin idiot.
Reagan would have washed your mouth out with soap, Rob. He was polite, at
the very least.
From what I've read, Reagan didn't have much use for people who
acted like that, and didn't spend much time on them.
KKT
What do I care? Im bitching at you because youre a flat-out retarded moron
who cant even fucking read a simple paragraph. Go back and read what was
origionaly posted. Was your responce appropriate? Really? Fuck youre a
complete dip-shit. You owe her an apology. And you owe idiots everywhere
an apology for ruining their good names. Youre a blight on a pigs genital
warts. Kathie, what you did was fucking stupid.


Rob
Michael
2004-06-12 10:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress
of the loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and
democracy in the world! You may not agree with his views, but you
must admit he had a profound and positive impact on the world. Not
looking for a flame war, but must express my conservative and pro
American view point.
One can be pro-American and still not be conservative or have the slightest
respect for Reagan as a President (this describes me pretty well)...
Post by Debra Whelan
God bless Ronald Reagan and his family in this
time of their sorry and God bless the United States of America.
... and at the same time, ask God to bless America and President Reagan's
survivors.

((U))
M
Post by Debra Whelan
Debby
I know in my heart that man is good.
That what is right will eventually triumph
And there's a purpose and worth for every life.
Ronald Reagan - 1911-2004.
Specialsearcher
2004-06-12 10:57:48 UTC
Permalink
"Not looking for a flame war, but
must express my conservative and pro American view point. "



So I take it being a conservative, your going to vote for Bush?


Kerry 2004!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/12/60minutes/main605700.shtml


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Primetime/Living/schaap031023-1.html

http://www.msnbc.com/news/992470.asp?0si=-&cp1=1

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078585/
ChuckMSRD
2004-06-12 11:33:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Specialsearcher
Kerry 2004!
Gee im all goose bumps at the prospect of Lurch in the oval orifice.

Chuck
Specialsearcher
2004-06-12 14:37:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChuckMSRD
Post by Specialsearcher
Kerry 2004!
Gee im all goose bumps at the prospect of Lurch in the oval orifice.
Chuck
I guess what we need is more wars not stem cell research huh?

How about putting those people that buy drugs in Canada in jail?

Hey lets bring in inflation, gas is priced way too low?

Thats just for starters..




Kerry 2004!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/12/60minutes/main605700.shtml


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Primetime/Living/schaap031023-1.html

http://www.msnbc.com/news/992470.asp?0si=-&cp1=1

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4078585/
Louis Kuhelj
2004-06-12 19:15:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Specialsearcher
Post by ChuckMSRD
Post by Specialsearcher
Kerry 2004!
Gee im all goose bumps at the prospect of Lurch in the oval orifice.
Chuck
I guess what we need is more wars not stem cell research huh?
Is there a difference? In both cases human lives are destoryed.
Post by Specialsearcher
How about putting those people that buy drugs in Canada in jail?
Why? Whom did they kill?
Post by Specialsearcher
Hey lets bring in inflation, gas is priced way too low?
Be careful what you ask for...
Post by Specialsearcher
Thats just for starters..
I guess some of us are way beyond being starters, so it can't be for us.
ChuckMSRD
2004-06-12 20:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Specialsearcher
I guess what we need is more wars not stem cell research huh?
Biggest disagreement I have with GWB. Stem cell research should be readily
performed. The war on terror is what it is.
Louis Kuhelj
2004-06-13 18:21:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChuckMSRD
Post by Specialsearcher
I guess what we need is more wars not stem cell research huh?
Biggest disagreement I have with GWB. Stem cell research should be readily
performed. The war on terror is what it is.
You don't explain what stem cell research you are supporting. Some of
that research I also support, but I can hardly tell from your
abbreviated statement if we are on the same page on this.
Michael
2004-06-12 18:44:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by ChuckMSRD
Post by Specialsearcher
Kerry 2004!
Gee im all goose bumps at the prospect of Lurch in the oval orifice.
Chuck
That's a pretty lame ad hominem there, Chuck.
Madelin McKinnon
2004-06-12 15:05:32 UTC
Permalink
Is this about greatness or about sympathy?

http://www.geocities.com/mobaster/gipper.htm
Sylvia
2004-06-12 14:24:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of the
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world.
I remember Reagan all too well.

He did not make the communist nations fall; he was just the president
when those regimes collapsed under the weight of corruption and poor
policies. It would have happened no matter who was leading the United
States

I remember how he refused to acknowledge the AIDS epidemic until the
death of movie star Rock Hudson. I remember the school lunch program
revision that counted catsup as a vegetable. I remember the recession
of 1982 with double digit unemployment when I was looking for my first
job.

A great president? I don't think so.

Speak well of the dead? No, sorry; this is history.

I was not sorry to see him go.

Sylvia
hantayo
2004-06-12 16:15:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sylvia
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of the
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world.
I remember Reagan all too well.
He did not make the communist nations fall; he was just the president
when those regimes collapsed under the weight of corruption and poor
policies. It would have happened no matter who was leading the United
States
I remember how he refused to acknowledge the AIDS epidemic until the
death of movie star Rock Hudson. I remember the school lunch program
revision that counted catsup as a vegetable. I remember the recession
of 1982 with double digit unemployment when I was looking for my first
job.
A great president? I don't think so.
Speak well of the dead? No, sorry; this is history.
I was not sorry to see him go.
Sylvia
Hi Sylvia,
And I also remember all the family farms that went under. :-(
Kathy K.
LasVegasJeweler1
2004-06-12 16:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Only with the passage of time will history hold President Reagan in high or
low esteem. While I adamantly disagreed with many of his policies, I had great
personal admiration for him. I always enjoyed his work in Hollywood, and
continue to enjoy his films to this day.
He was an American original in every respect.We shall not see the likes of
him again soon.
Kath
2004-06-12 17:42:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by LasVegasJeweler1
Only with the passage of time will history hold President Reagan in high or
low esteem. While I adamantly disagreed with many of his policies, I had great
personal admiration for him. I always enjoyed his work in Hollywood, and
continue to enjoy his films to this day.
He was an American original in every respect.We shall not see the likes of
him again soon.
I can't say I always admired him; I'm not sure I paid too much
attention to his personal life.

But I listened to what his children said about him yesterday and it
was clear to me that despite their well-known differences, his
children thought highly of him as a father and as a spouse. They
each mentioned as much in their remarks, and in my estimation, that
counts for a great deal.

I'm not sure if Michael or Patti's remarks are on-line; they
probably are ... but Ron's are here: http://tinyurl.com/36abt

These words were spoken about a kind, decent man. I don't think that
those attributes were well reflected in his policies, and I don't
know why ... but, certainly, he treated people with kindness and
consideration ... and that's so sorely lacking in those who profess
to admire him yet behave in a way that I suspect he would not support.

Kathie
abdi
2004-06-13 19:39:23 UTC
Permalink
Are you kidding, the guy thought any time now the Nicaraguan's (two days
away) are going to invade US. He was the person who made it fashionable not
to worry about deficits and just be happy. He tried to sell catsup as
vegetable (no pun). He had the most dysfunctional family, with Patty (Davis
mind you) in Playboy and the son gay, yet he was the choice of moral
majority (Go figure) and finally he did not win the cold war, it was won by
Human Rights initiative of Jimmy Carter, if you do not believe that go ask
Shransky.
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of the
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame war, but
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless Ronald
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the United
States of America.
Debby
I know in my heart that man is good.
That what is right will eventually triumph
And there's a purpose and worth for every life.
Ronald Reagan - 1911-2004.
Rob Duncan
2004-06-13 22:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Abdi, youre an idiot.


Rob
Post by abdi
Are you kidding, the guy thought any time now the Nicaraguan's (two days
away) are going to invade US. He was the person who made it fashionable not
to worry about deficits and just be happy. He tried to sell catsup as
vegetable (no pun). He had the most dysfunctional family, with Patty (Davis
mind you) in Playboy and the son gay, yet he was the choice of moral
majority (Go figure) and finally he did not win the cold war, it was won by
Human Rights initiative of Jimmy Carter, if you do not believe that go ask
Shransky.
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of the
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame war,
but
Post by Debra Whelan
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless
Ronald
Post by Debra Whelan
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the United
States of America.
Debby
I know in my heart that man is good.
That what is right will eventually triumph
And there's a purpose and worth for every life.
Ronald Reagan - 1911-2004.
abdi
2004-06-14 00:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Rob,

I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is hard to handle.
Go be happy.
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
Are you kidding, the guy thought any time now the Nicaraguan's (two days
away) are going to invade US. He was the person who made it fashionable
not
Post by abdi
to worry about deficits and just be happy. He tried to sell catsup as
vegetable (no pun). He had the most dysfunctional family, with Patty
(Davis
Post by abdi
mind you) in Playboy and the son gay, yet he was the choice of moral
majority (Go figure) and finally he did not win the cold war, it was won
by
Post by abdi
Human Rights initiative of Jimmy Carter, if you do not believe that go ask
Shransky.
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of
the
Post by abdi
Post by Debra Whelan
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in the
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame war,
but
Post by Debra Whelan
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless
Ronald
Post by Debra Whelan
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the
United
Post by abdi
Post by Debra Whelan
States of America.
Debby
I know in my heart that man is good.
That what is right will eventually triumph
And there's a purpose and worth for every life.
Ronald Reagan - 1911-2004.
abdi
2004-06-14 00:20:53 UTC
Permalink
One more thing, you might like these two links.
http://www.sundayherald.com/42648
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2038.htm
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is hard to handle.
Go be happy.
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
Are you kidding, the guy thought any time now the Nicaraguan's (two days
away) are going to invade US. He was the person who made it fashionable
not
Post by abdi
to worry about deficits and just be happy. He tried to sell catsup as
vegetable (no pun). He had the most dysfunctional family, with Patty
(Davis
Post by abdi
mind you) in Playboy and the son gay, yet he was the choice of moral
majority (Go figure) and finally he did not win the cold war, it was won
by
Post by abdi
Human Rights initiative of Jimmy Carter, if you do not believe that go
ask
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Shransky.
Post by Debra Whelan
Surprised to find out I did not get an exacerbation with the stress of
the
Post by abdi
Post by Debra Whelan
loss of one of Americas greatest forces of freedom and democracy in
the
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Debra Whelan
world! You may not agree with his views, but you must admit he had a
profound and positive impact on the world. Not looking for a flame
war,
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
but
Post by Debra Whelan
must express my conservative and pro American view point. God bless
Ronald
Post by Debra Whelan
Reagan and his family in this time of their sorry and God bless the
United
Post by abdi
Post by Debra Whelan
States of America.
Debby
I know in my heart that man is good.
That what is right will eventually triumph
And there's a purpose and worth for every life.
Ronald Reagan - 1911-2004.
Kelly
2004-06-15 15:29:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is hard to handle.
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated more were
Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing that his beliefs
were in the best interests of America.

BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
Kath
2004-06-15 16:49:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelly
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated more were
Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing that his beliefs
were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
I'm not sure either party has a lock on that ... although, one thing
you have to say about Reagan -- when he invaded a defenseless
country, he only took an afternoon. ;-)

KKT
abdi
2004-06-16 01:52:26 UTC
Permalink
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.

1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs are scum,
they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis). And he is
thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and daughter in
Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy Carter, based on religion and
morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see Nancy Regan
and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the Ayatollahs killed
200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was intelligent, not
to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is hard to handle.
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated more were
Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing that his beliefs
were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
Rob Duncan
2004-06-16 03:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Abdi, youre an idiot.


Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs are scum,
they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis). And he is
thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and daughter in
Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy Carter, based on religion and
morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see Nancy Regan
and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the Ayatollahs killed
200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was intelligent, not
to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is hard to
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated more were
Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing that his beliefs
were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
abdi
2004-06-19 04:37:12 UTC
Permalink
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are like my
moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not take it
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs are scum,
they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis). And he is
thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and daughter in
Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy Carter, based on religion
and
Post by abdi
morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see Nancy
Regan
Post by abdi
and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the Ayatollahs killed
200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was intelligent,
not
Post by abdi
to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is hard to
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated more were
Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing that his beliefs
were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
rose dawn scott
2004-06-19 16:09:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are like my
moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence.
abdi, rob lives in oregon and has stated publically on the NG that
he's financially comfortable and did white-collar dollar stuff at
various times -- why would he be your 'moral compass' for judging what
you persist in calling 'rednecks?'

i mean, seriously. whether you want to go by the old-school
definition, the more 'inclusive' modern def of rednecks as all poor
white people, or the definition used by those who self-define as
rednecks, i'm pretty sure rob fails to qualify on any of those
criteria.

and if you have a serious point to make, why NOT make it without using
insulting stereotyped slurs? or OTOH, if you do just want to be
insulting, why not keep it simple [ie, 'you're a big jerk'] or get
creative [bob d. can be very good at that, LOL], instead of insulting
large groups of people all at once?

rose, working class, emphasis on the latter now that i'm disability
retired. :->
abdi
2004-06-19 20:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Rose,

Actually calling people redneck, is probably due to my limited
vocabulary. To me rednecks were
the stupid closed minded whites, who thought that their wives are going to
have mad sex with blacks if they do not lynch them. It has changed quite a
bit lately, in my trips to south, I find southerners to be more at ease
with blacks, but now they have found Arabs to oppress. I am not an Arab and
I am not black either, but I hope I would have been on the freedom rides if
I was here. Anyway I do not wish to be insulting to anyone
except the ideology of oppression.
Post by rose dawn scott
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are like my
moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence.
abdi, rob lives in oregon and has stated publically on the NG that
he's financially comfortable and did white-collar dollar stuff at
various times -- why would he be your 'moral compass' for judging what
you persist in calling 'rednecks?'
i mean, seriously. whether you want to go by the old-school
definition, the more 'inclusive' modern def of rednecks as all poor
white people, or the definition used by those who self-define as
rednecks, i'm pretty sure rob fails to qualify on any of those
criteria.
and if you have a serious point to make, why NOT make it without using
insulting stereotyped slurs? or OTOH, if you do just want to be
insulting, why not keep it simple [ie, 'you're a big jerk'] or get
creative [bob d. can be very good at that, LOL], instead of insulting
large groups of people all at once?
rose, working class, emphasis on the latter now that i'm disability
retired. :->
laura davis doe
2004-06-19 23:28:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by abdi
y. To me rednecks were
the stupid closed minded whites, who thought that their wives are going to
have mad sex with blacks if they do not lynch them.
I believe the fear was the blacks would be overcome with the gloriosity of
that creamy white skin and forcibly pluck the delicate flower of genteel
feminity.
Rednecks are white folks who work outdoors (they have red necks!) ,
uneducated, superstitous. They will sell you anything they own, which is
nothing, and kill you over anything they don't understand, which is
everything.

Lo
abdi
2004-06-20 00:13:04 UTC
Permalink
Laura you explain it much better, but the concept was the same.
Post by laura davis doe
Post by abdi
y. To me rednecks were
the stupid closed minded whites, who thought that their wives are going to
have mad sex with blacks if they do not lynch them.
I believe the fear was the blacks would be overcome with the gloriosity of
that creamy white skin and forcibly pluck the delicate flower of genteel
feminity.
Rednecks are white folks who work outdoors (they have red necks!) ,
uneducated, superstitous. They will sell you anything they own, which is
nothing, and kill you over anything they don't understand, which is
everything.
Lo
Michael
2004-06-20 01:53:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by laura davis doe
Post by abdi
y. To me rednecks were
the stupid closed minded whites, who thought that their wives are
going to have mad sex with blacks if they do not lynch them.
I believe the fear was the blacks would be overcome with the
gloriosity of that creamy white skin and forcibly pluck the delicate
flower of genteel feminity.
Euphemism for "black men will rape white women because they can't help
themselves."
Post by laura davis doe
Rednecks are white folks who work outdoors (they have red necks!) ,
uneducated, superstitous.
That's part of the original meaning of the term.
Post by laura davis doe
They will sell you anything they own,
which is nothing, and kill you over anything they don't understand,
which is everything.
And that's a reasonable inferrence from the original meaning. :-)

<TIC>
So. You wanna do my bros, or you wannem to do *you*. Upta you,
white-girl.
</TIC>

((U))
M
Kath
2004-06-19 16:10:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are like my
moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not take it
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
You, know, this is just about enough. This is a forum for people who
are affected by stress. These "conversations" count.

Rob, my request is that you please stop name-calling.

Abdi, my request for you is the same. Please stop. Wishing someone
dead is WAY over the top.

Both of you say that you have MS, but neither one of you seems to be
at all interested in how your behavior exacerbates stress. It might
be a good idea to take a little time out of you "attack" schedule
and give that a little thought.

Kathie
abdi
2004-06-20 01:53:46 UTC
Permalink
Kath,

In fact you are incorrect. If I ever gave you the impression of wishing
dome one dead, its probably my English.
I stand for non violence (just like JC) and I never wish the rednecks death.
Also I think, healthy discussion of politics should not cause any stress.
Dueling too much on MS is much more stressful,
but I enjoy when I read of some progress in the field. Admittedly, I was
disappointed with the stem cell stupidity, but
that paled against seeing some of those young guys with artificial legs.
Post by Kath
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are like my
moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not take it
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
You, know, this is just about enough. This is a forum for people who
are affected by stress. These "conversations" count.
Rob, my request is that you please stop name-calling.
Abdi, my request for you is the same. Please stop. Wishing someone
dead is WAY over the top.
Both of you say that you have MS, but neither one of you seems to be
at all interested in how your behavior exacerbates stress. It might
be a good idea to take a little time out of you "attack" schedule
and give that a little thought.
Kathie
Kath
2004-06-20 04:09:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by abdi
Kath,
In fact you are incorrect. If I ever gave you the impression of wishing
dome one dead, its probably my English.
You said to Rob, when talking about Reagan, "its just that you are
wasting your life, you should go join your hero."
Post by abdi
I stand for non violence (just like JC) and I never wish the rednecks death.
Also I think, healthy discussion of politics should not cause any stress.
Dueling too much on MS is much more stressful,
The horrible name-calling DOES cause distress. OTOH, I've stopped
reading some folks ...
Post by abdi
but I enjoy when I read of some progress in the field. Admittedly, I was
disappointed with the stem cell stupidity, but
that paled against seeing some of those young guys with artificial legs.
I enjoy civil discussions. It's not very interesting when everyone
agrees, but disagreement doesn't have to result in such incivility
... I believe you once made that point.

KKT
abdi
2004-06-20 14:35:03 UTC
Permalink
Sorry if I gave you a wrong impression, I meant he should join the American
soldiers in Iraq, I do not wish death for anyone.
Post by Kath
Post by abdi
Kath,
In fact you are incorrect. If I ever gave you the impression of wishing
dome one dead, its probably my English.
You said to Rob, when talking about Reagan, "its just that you are
wasting your life, you should go join your hero."
Post by abdi
I stand for non violence (just like JC) and I never wish the rednecks death.
Also I think, healthy discussion of politics should not cause any stress.
Dueling too much on MS is much more stressful,
The horrible name-calling DOES cause distress. OTOH, I've stopped
reading some folks ...
Post by abdi
but I enjoy when I read of some progress in the field. Admittedly, I was
disappointed with the stem cell stupidity, but
that paled against seeing some of those young guys with artificial legs.
I enjoy civil discussions. It's not very interesting when everyone
agrees, but disagreement doesn't have to result in such incivility
... I believe you once made that point.
KKT
Rob Duncan
2004-06-20 18:02:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by abdi
Sorry if I gave you a wrong impression, I meant he should join the American
soldiers in Iraq, I do not wish death for anyone.
Were I to be of any worth I most certainly would join my fellow citizens in
Iraq. I would be honored to do so.


Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Kath
Post by abdi
Kath,
In fact you are incorrect. If I ever gave you the impression of
wishing
Post by Kath
Post by abdi
dome one dead, its probably my English.
You said to Rob, when talking about Reagan, "its just that you are
wasting your life, you should go join your hero."
Post by abdi
I stand for non violence (just like JC) and I never wish the rednecks
death.
Post by Kath
Post by abdi
Also I think, healthy discussion of politics should not cause any
stress.
Post by Kath
Post by abdi
Dueling too much on MS is much more stressful,
The horrible name-calling DOES cause distress. OTOH, I've stopped
reading some folks ...
Post by abdi
but I enjoy when I read of some progress in the field. Admittedly, I was
disappointed with the stem cell stupidity, but
that paled against seeing some of those young guys with artificial legs.
I enjoy civil discussions. It's not very interesting when everyone
agrees, but disagreement doesn't have to result in such incivility
... I believe you once made that point.
KKT
Kath
2004-06-20 19:09:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by abdi
Sorry if I gave you a wrong impression, I meant he should join
the American soldiers in Iraq, I do not wish death for anyone.
I'm sorry if I misinterpreted.

KKT
Rob Duncan
2004-06-19 20:45:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are like my
moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not take it
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Keep slandering people by calling them red-neck, and Ill keep calling you an
idiot. Its no skin off my back.


Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs are scum,
they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis). And he is
thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and daughter in
Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy Carter, based on religion
and
Post by abdi
morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see Nancy
Regan
Post by abdi
and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the Ayatollahs
killed
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was
intelligent,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
not
Post by abdi
to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is hard to
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated more were
Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing that his beliefs
were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
abdi
2004-06-19 22:04:01 UTC
Permalink
Dont worry, you will get educated, it took years of brain washing, by the
likes of Rush to get you so messed up, now iyou will not be cured over
night, just do not be scared and remember its not related to MS,
I have had it for years and I can think for myself. You will too, start by
reading these gems,
http://www.flownet.com/gat/freedom.html
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are like my
moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not take it
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Keep slandering people by calling them red-neck, and Ill keep calling you an
idiot. Its no skin off my back.
Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs are
scum,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis). And
he
Post by Rob Duncan
is
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and daughter in
Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy Carter, based on
religion
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
and
Post by abdi
morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see Nancy
Regan
Post by abdi
and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the Ayatollahs
killed
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was
intelligent,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
not
Post by abdi
to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is
hard
Post by Rob Duncan
to
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated more
were
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Kelly
Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing that his beliefs
were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
Michael
2004-06-19 22:24:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by abdi
Dont worry, you will get educated, it took years of brain washing, by
the likes of Rush to get you so messed up,
Uhhh... Rob's only objecting (in the present case, at least) to your
characterizing him as a "redneck".

In its beginnings, the term applied to unworldly, white, rural, poor (and
often working class) conservatives, but over the past 30 years or so, it's
come to be considered pretty much synonymous with "white trash".

Rob doesn't fit either category even remotely.

Of course, I'm pretty sure he also thinks you're an idiot sometimes,
irrespective of any semantic differences the two of you might need to sort
out. C'est la vie. :-)

((U))
M
Post by abdi
now iyou will not be cured
over night, just do not be scared and remember its not related to MS,
I have had it for years and I can think for myself. You will too,
start by reading these gems,
http://www.flownet.com/gat/freedom.html
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are
like my moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not take it
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Keep slandering people by calling them red-neck, and Ill keep
calling you an idiot. Its no skin off my back.
Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs
are scum, they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis).
And he is thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and
daughter in Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy Carter,
based on religion and morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see
Nancy Regan and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the
Ayatollahs killed 200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was
intelligent, not to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any
more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is
hard
Post by Rob Duncan
to
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated
more were Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing
that his beliefs were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
abdi
2004-06-20 00:11:17 UTC
Permalink
You guys are too stuck on semantics, red neckism is the label I use for
Bushites, I live in a very affluent neighborhood (remember my dad gave up
communism when he was 30), anyway one of my neighbors is a doctor, but he
was for the stupid war, I call him the red neck too, I think his ancestors
stole land from Indians in Massachusetts.
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Dont worry, you will get educated, it took years of brain washing, by
the likes of Rush to get you so messed up,
Uhhh... Rob's only objecting (in the present case, at least) to your
characterizing him as a "redneck".
In its beginnings, the term applied to unworldly, white, rural, poor (and
often working class) conservatives, but over the past 30 years or so, it's
come to be considered pretty much synonymous with "white trash".
Rob doesn't fit either category even remotely.
Of course, I'm pretty sure he also thinks you're an idiot sometimes,
irrespective of any semantic differences the two of you might need to sort
out. C'est la vie. :-)
((U))
M
Post by abdi
now iyou will not be cured
over night, just do not be scared and remember its not related to MS,
I have had it for years and I can think for myself. You will too,
start by reading these gems,
http://www.flownet.com/gat/freedom.html
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are
like my moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not take it
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Keep slandering people by calling them red-neck, and Ill keep
calling you an idiot. Its no skin off my back.
Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs
are scum, they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis).
And he is thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and
daughter in Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy Carter,
based on religion and morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see
Nancy Regan and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the
Ayatollahs killed 200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was
intelligent, not to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any
more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is
hard
Post by Rob Duncan
to
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated
more were Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing
that his beliefs were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
Michael
2004-06-20 01:48:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by abdi
You guys are too stuck on semantics, red neckism is the label I use
for Bushites, I live in a very affluent neighborhood (remember my dad
gave up communism when he was 30), anyway one of my neighbors is a
doctor, but he was for the stupid war, I call him the red neck too, I
think his ancestors stole land from Indians in Massachusetts.
If you'd like to redefine words, take it up with lexicographers.

((U))
M
Post by abdi
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Dont worry, you will get educated, it took years of brain washing,
by the likes of Rush to get you so messed up,
Uhhh... Rob's only objecting (in the present case, at least) to your
characterizing him as a "redneck".
In its beginnings, the term applied to unworldly, white, rural, poor
(and often working class) conservatives, but over the past 30 years
or so, it's come to be considered pretty much synonymous with "white
trash".
Rob doesn't fit either category even remotely.
Of course, I'm pretty sure he also thinks you're an idiot sometimes,
irrespective of any semantic differences the two of you might need
to sort out. C'est la vie. :-)
((U))
M
Post by abdi
now iyou will not be cured
over night, just do not be scared and remember its not related to MS,
I have had it for years and I can think for myself. You will too,
start by reading these gems,
http://www.flownet.com/gat/freedom.html
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are
like my moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not take
it personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Keep slandering people by calling them red-neck, and Ill keep
calling you an idiot. Its no skin off my back.
Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs
are scum, they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis).
And he is thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and
daughter in Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy
Carter, based on religion and morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see
Nancy Regan and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the
Ayatollahs killed 200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was
intelligent, not to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any
more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is
hard
Post by Rob Duncan
to
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated
more were Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing
that his beliefs were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office
vs. Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
Rob Duncan
2004-06-20 01:56:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Dont worry, you will get educated, it took years of brain washing, by
the likes of Rush to get you so messed up,
Uhhh... Rob's only objecting (in the present case, at least) to your
characterizing him as a "redneck".
Oh, no, I dont care what abdi calls me. He can call me anything he likes.
Im taking exception to him calling southerners rednecks. My uncle, my two
cousins, my sister, brother in-law, two nephews, and a few more live in the
south. ANd in no way are they racist or rednecks. But you would be right
in guessing, if he chose to use that term in person, that I would knock more
than just a few teeth down his throat.

I like violence under the right conditions.
Post by Michael
In its beginnings, the term applied to unworldly, white, rural, poor (and
often working class) conservatives, but over the past 30 years or so, it's
come to be considered pretty much synonymous with "white trash".
Rob doesn't fit either category even remotely.
Of course, I'm pretty sure he also thinks you're an idiot sometimes,
irrespective of any semantic differences the two of you might need to sort
out. C'est la vie. :-)
((U))
M
I dont mind what abdi calls me, but I do mind the way in which he spits out
the term, redneck, in all his venom. Its not like a black comedian using
the N word in their stage act, and in joking around with friends. Its no
big deal at all. Or like Jeff Foxworthy using redneck in his skits. No big
deal at all. Its all in context and delivery. Abdi uses it as venomously
and in a contextualy offensive manner as possible.

Call a racist a racist, but dont call people you dont like, rednecks, and
dont call ALL southerners rednecks. Thats just ignorant. Anyone too dumb
to understand this IS an idiot, by definition.


Rob
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
now iyou will not be cured
over night, just do not be scared and remember its not related to MS,
I have had it for years and I can think for myself. You will too,
start by reading these gems,
http://www.flownet.com/gat/freedom.html
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are
like my moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not take it
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Keep slandering people by calling them red-neck, and Ill keep
calling you an idiot. Its no skin off my back.
Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs
are scum, they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis).
And he is thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and
daughter in Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy Carter,
based on religion and morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see
Nancy Regan and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the
Ayatollahs killed 200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was
intelligent, not to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any
more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is
hard
Post by Rob Duncan
to
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated
more were Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing
that his beliefs were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
abdi
2004-06-20 02:23:24 UTC
Permalink
Rob,
That's the whole idea. You and your buddy (Dubaya and your family)
resort to violence and intimidation when you run out of arguments. Mind you,
your buddy is sorry now, but he did not listen and like a drunken idiot
charged in.
One other thing, against all other sayings, I had pegged you as a redneck
and its true. You just said so, it must be something you picked up when you
were wearing those sheets.
But I thank you, (and this is genuine), I always felt guilty for not
moving to south, so my kids would grow in an environment that lowers their
chance of MS. Its not so and they would have become stupid like you.
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Dont worry, you will get educated, it took years of brain washing, by
the likes of Rush to get you so messed up,
Uhhh... Rob's only objecting (in the present case, at least) to your
characterizing him as a "redneck".
Oh, no, I dont care what abdi calls me. He can call me anything he likes.
Im taking exception to him calling southerners rednecks. My uncle, my two
cousins, my sister, brother in-law, two nephews, and a few more live in the
south. ANd in no way are they racist or rednecks. But you would be right
in guessing, if he chose to use that term in person, that I would knock more
than just a few teeth down his throat.
I like violence under the right conditions.
Post by Michael
In its beginnings, the term applied to unworldly, white, rural, poor (and
often working class) conservatives, but over the past 30 years or so, it's
come to be considered pretty much synonymous with "white trash".
Rob doesn't fit either category even remotely.
Of course, I'm pretty sure he also thinks you're an idiot sometimes,
irrespective of any semantic differences the two of you might need to sort
out. C'est la vie. :-)
((U))
M
I dont mind what abdi calls me, but I do mind the way in which he spits out
the term, redneck, in all his venom. Its not like a black comedian using
the N word in their stage act, and in joking around with friends. Its no
big deal at all. Or like Jeff Foxworthy using redneck in his skits. No big
deal at all. Its all in context and delivery. Abdi uses it as venomously
and in a contextualy offensive manner as possible.
Call a racist a racist, but dont call people you dont like, rednecks, and
dont call ALL southerners rednecks. Thats just ignorant. Anyone too dumb
to understand this IS an idiot, by definition.
Rob
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
now iyou will not be cured
over night, just do not be scared and remember its not related to MS,
I have had it for years and I can think for myself. You will too,
start by reading these gems,
http://www.flownet.com/gat/freedom.html
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are
like my moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not take it
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Keep slandering people by calling them red-neck, and Ill keep
calling you an idiot. Its no skin off my back.
Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs
are scum, they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis).
And he is thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and
daughter in Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy Carter,
based on religion and morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see
Nancy Regan and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the
Ayatollahs killed 200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was
intelligent, not to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any
more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is
hard
Post by Rob Duncan
to
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated
more were Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing
that his beliefs were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
Rob Duncan
2004-06-20 03:50:56 UTC
Permalink
Abdi, youre an idiot.


Rob
Post by abdi
Rob,
That's the whole idea. You and your buddy (Dubaya and your family)
resort to violence and intimidation when you run out of arguments. Mind you,
your buddy is sorry now, but he did not listen and like a drunken idiot
charged in.
One other thing, against all other sayings, I had pegged you as a redneck
and its true. You just said so, it must be something you picked up when you
were wearing those sheets.
But I thank you, (and this is genuine), I always felt guilty for not
moving to south, so my kids would grow in an environment that lowers their
chance of MS. Its not so and they would have become stupid like you.
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Dont worry, you will get educated, it took years of brain washing, by
the likes of Rush to get you so messed up,
Uhhh... Rob's only objecting (in the present case, at least) to your
characterizing him as a "redneck".
Oh, no, I dont care what abdi calls me. He can call me anything he likes.
Im taking exception to him calling southerners rednecks. My uncle, my two
cousins, my sister, brother in-law, two nephews, and a few more live in
the
Post by Rob Duncan
south. ANd in no way are they racist or rednecks. But you would be right
in guessing, if he chose to use that term in person, that I would knock
more
Post by Rob Duncan
than just a few teeth down his throat.
I like violence under the right conditions.
Post by Michael
In its beginnings, the term applied to unworldly, white, rural, poor
(and
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
often working class) conservatives, but over the past 30 years or so,
it's
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
come to be considered pretty much synonymous with "white trash".
Rob doesn't fit either category even remotely.
Of course, I'm pretty sure he also thinks you're an idiot sometimes,
irrespective of any semantic differences the two of you might need to
sort
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
out. C'est la vie. :-)
((U))
M
I dont mind what abdi calls me, but I do mind the way in which he spits
out
Post by Rob Duncan
the term, redneck, in all his venom. Its not like a black comedian using
the N word in their stage act, and in joking around with friends. Its no
big deal at all. Or like Jeff Foxworthy using redneck in his skits. No
big
Post by Rob Duncan
deal at all. Its all in context and delivery. Abdi uses it as venomously
and in a contextualy offensive manner as possible.
Call a racist a racist, but dont call people you dont like, rednecks, and
dont call ALL southerners rednecks. Thats just ignorant. Anyone too dumb
to understand this IS an idiot, by definition.
Rob
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
now iyou will not be cured
over night, just do not be scared and remember its not related to MS,
I have had it for years and I can think for myself. You will too,
start by reading these gems,
http://www.flownet.com/gat/freedom.html
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are
like my moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not take it
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Keep slandering people by calling them red-neck, and Ill keep
calling you an idiot. Its no skin off my back.
Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs
are scum, they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis).
And he is thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and
daughter in Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy Carter,
based on religion and morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see
Nancy Regan and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the
Ayatollahs killed 200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was
intelligent, not to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any
more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is
hard
Post by Rob Duncan
to
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated
more were Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing
that his beliefs were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office vs.
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
abdi
2004-06-20 14:45:22 UTC
Permalink
Rob,

When you go join your heroes, make sure you do not take your camera
phone either, they do not like any more tacky
pictures, even though I understand red necks like to take pictures with
their victims.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/25/iraq-camera_phone_ban/
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
Rob,
That's the whole idea. You and your buddy (Dubaya and your family)
resort to violence and intimidation when you run out of arguments. Mind
you,
Post by abdi
your buddy is sorry now, but he did not listen and like a drunken idiot
charged in.
One other thing, against all other sayings, I had pegged you as a redneck
and its true. You just said so, it must be something you picked up when
you
Post by abdi
were wearing those sheets.
But I thank you, (and this is genuine), I always felt guilty for not
moving to south, so my kids would grow in an environment that lowers their
chance of MS. Its not so and they would have become stupid like you.
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Dont worry, you will get educated, it took years of brain washing,
by
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
the likes of Rush to get you so messed up,
Uhhh... Rob's only objecting (in the present case, at least) to your
characterizing him as a "redneck".
Oh, no, I dont care what abdi calls me. He can call me anything he
likes.
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Im taking exception to him calling southerners rednecks. My uncle, my
two
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
cousins, my sister, brother in-law, two nephews, and a few more live in
the
Post by Rob Duncan
south. ANd in no way are they racist or rednecks. But you would be
right
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
in guessing, if he chose to use that term in person, that I would knock
more
Post by Rob Duncan
than just a few teeth down his throat.
I like violence under the right conditions.
Post by Michael
In its beginnings, the term applied to unworldly, white, rural, poor
(and
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
often working class) conservatives, but over the past 30 years or so,
it's
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
come to be considered pretty much synonymous with "white trash".
Rob doesn't fit either category even remotely.
Of course, I'm pretty sure he also thinks you're an idiot sometimes,
irrespective of any semantic differences the two of you might need to
sort
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
out. C'est la vie. :-)
((U))
M
I dont mind what abdi calls me, but I do mind the way in which he spits
out
Post by Rob Duncan
the term, redneck, in all his venom. Its not like a black comedian
using
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
the N word in their stage act, and in joking around with friends. Its
no
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
big deal at all. Or like Jeff Foxworthy using redneck in his skits.
No
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
big
Post by Rob Duncan
deal at all. Its all in context and delivery. Abdi uses it as
venomously
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
and in a contextualy offensive manner as possible.
Call a racist a racist, but dont call people you dont like, rednecks,
and
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
dont call ALL southerners rednecks. Thats just ignorant. Anyone too
dumb
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
to understand this IS an idiot, by definition.
Rob
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
now iyou will not be cured
over night, just do not be scared and remember its not related to
MS,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
I have had it for years and I can think for myself. You will too,
start by reading these gems,
http://www.flownet.com/gat/freedom.html
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are
like my moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not
take
Post by Rob Duncan
it
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Keep slandering people by calling them red-neck, and Ill keep
calling you an idiot. Its no skin off my back.
Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs
are scum, they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis).
And he is thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and
daughter in Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy
Carter,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
based on religion and morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I see
Nancy Regan and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the
Ayatollahs killed 200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was
intelligent, not to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese) any
more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is
hard
Post by Rob Duncan
to
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated
more were Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing
that his beliefs were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office
vs.
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Kelly
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
Rob Duncan
2004-06-20 18:05:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by abdi
Rob,
When you go join your heroes, make sure you do not take your camera
phone either, they do not like any more tacky
pictures, even though I understand red necks like to take pictures with
their victims.
Why would soldiers be allowed cell-phones, let alone camera-phones?
Moronic.


Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
Rob,
That's the whole idea. You and your buddy (Dubaya and your family)
resort to violence and intimidation when you run out of arguments. Mind
you,
Post by abdi
your buddy is sorry now, but he did not listen and like a drunken idiot
charged in.
One other thing, against all other sayings, I had pegged you as a
redneck
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
and its true. You just said so, it must be something you picked up when
you
Post by abdi
were wearing those sheets.
But I thank you, (and this is genuine), I always felt guilty for not
moving to south, so my kids would grow in an environment that lowers
their
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
chance of MS. Its not so and they would have become stupid like you.
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Dont worry, you will get educated, it took years of brain washing,
by
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
the likes of Rush to get you so messed up,
Uhhh... Rob's only objecting (in the present case, at least) to your
characterizing him as a "redneck".
Oh, no, I dont care what abdi calls me. He can call me anything he
likes.
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Im taking exception to him calling southerners rednecks. My uncle, my
two
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
cousins, my sister, brother in-law, two nephews, and a few more live
in
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
the
Post by Rob Duncan
south. ANd in no way are they racist or rednecks. But you would be
right
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
in guessing, if he chose to use that term in person, that I would
knock
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
more
Post by Rob Duncan
than just a few teeth down his throat.
I like violence under the right conditions.
Post by Michael
In its beginnings, the term applied to unworldly, white, rural, poor
(and
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
often working class) conservatives, but over the past 30 years or
so,
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
it's
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
come to be considered pretty much synonymous with "white trash".
Rob doesn't fit either category even remotely.
Of course, I'm pretty sure he also thinks you're an idiot sometimes,
irrespective of any semantic differences the two of you might need
to
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
sort
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
out. C'est la vie. :-)
((U))
M
I dont mind what abdi calls me, but I do mind the way in which he
spits
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
out
Post by Rob Duncan
the term, redneck, in all his venom. Its not like a black comedian
using
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
the N word in their stage act, and in joking around with friends.
Its
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
no
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
big deal at all. Or like Jeff Foxworthy using redneck in his skits.
No
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
big
Post by Rob Duncan
deal at all. Its all in context and delivery. Abdi uses it as
venomously
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
and in a contextualy offensive manner as possible.
Call a racist a racist, but dont call people you dont like, rednecks,
and
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
dont call ALL southerners rednecks. Thats just ignorant. Anyone too
dumb
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
to understand this IS an idiot, by definition.
Rob
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
now iyou will not be cured
over night, just do not be scared and remember its not related to
MS,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
I have had it for years and I can think for myself. You will too,
start by reading these gems,
http://www.flownet.com/gat/freedom.html
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you are
like my moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not
take
Post by Rob Duncan
it
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Keep slandering people by calling them red-neck, and Ill keep
calling you an idiot. Its no skin off my back.
Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the Ayatollahs
are scum, they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the Bahaiis).
And he is thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and
daughter in Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy
Carter,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
based on religion and morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I
see
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Nancy Regan and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the
Ayatollahs killed 200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was
intelligent, not to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese)
any
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some times is
hard
Post by Rob Duncan
to
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we hated
more were Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into believing
that his beliefs were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in office
vs.
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Kelly
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
abdi
2004-06-21 01:40:47 UTC
Permalink
I know, that just shows that they did not have anything to hide. In fact
probably there is massive anti-American conspiracy by doctoring those
pictures. But rednecks do like to take pictures with their trophies, maybe
they should
take Kodak cameras and only Defense department be allowed to develop. Send
the plan to your buddy.
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Rob,
When you go join your heroes, make sure you do not take your camera
phone either, they do not like any more tacky
pictures, even though I understand red necks like to take pictures with
their victims.
Why would soldiers be allowed cell-phones, let alone camera-phones?
Moronic.
Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
Rob,
That's the whole idea. You and your buddy (Dubaya and your family)
resort to violence and intimidation when you run out of arguments.
Mind
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
you,
Post by abdi
your buddy is sorry now, but he did not listen and like a drunken
idiot
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
charged in.
One other thing, against all other sayings, I had pegged you as a
redneck
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
and its true. You just said so, it must be something you picked up
when
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
you
Post by abdi
were wearing those sheets.
But I thank you, (and this is genuine), I always felt guilty for
not
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
moving to south, so my kids would grow in an environment that lowers
their
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
chance of MS. Its not so and they would have become stupid like you.
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Dont worry, you will get educated, it took years of brain
washing,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
by
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
the likes of Rush to get you so messed up,
Uhhh... Rob's only objecting (in the present case, at least) to
your
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
characterizing him as a "redneck".
Oh, no, I dont care what abdi calls me. He can call me anything he
likes.
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Im taking exception to him calling southerners rednecks. My
uncle,
Post by Rob Duncan
my
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
two
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
cousins, my sister, brother in-law, two nephews, and a few more live
in
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
the
Post by Rob Duncan
south. ANd in no way are they racist or rednecks. But you would be
right
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
in guessing, if he chose to use that term in person, that I would
knock
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
more
Post by Rob Duncan
than just a few teeth down his throat.
I like violence under the right conditions.
Post by Michael
In its beginnings, the term applied to unworldly, white, rural,
poor
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
(and
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
often working class) conservatives, but over the past 30 years or
so,
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
it's
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
come to be considered pretty much synonymous with "white trash".
Rob doesn't fit either category even remotely.
Of course, I'm pretty sure he also thinks you're an idiot
sometimes,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
irrespective of any semantic differences the two of you might need
to
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
sort
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
out. C'est la vie. :-)
((U))
M
I dont mind what abdi calls me, but I do mind the way in which he
spits
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
out
Post by Rob Duncan
the term, redneck, in all his venom. Its not like a black comedian
using
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
the N word in their stage act, and in joking around with friends.
Its
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
no
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
big deal at all. Or like Jeff Foxworthy using redneck in his skits.
No
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
big
Post by Rob Duncan
deal at all. Its all in context and delivery. Abdi uses it as
venomously
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
and in a contextualy offensive manner as possible.
Call a racist a racist, but dont call people you dont like,
rednecks,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
and
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
dont call ALL southerners rednecks. Thats just ignorant. Anyone
too
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
dumb
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
to understand this IS an idiot, by definition.
Rob
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
now iyou will not be cured
over night, just do not be scared and remember its not related
to
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
MS,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
I have had it for years and I can think for myself. You will
too,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
start by reading these gems,
http://www.flownet.com/gat/freedom.html
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
You know, I some times question my view of rednecks, but you
are
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
like my moral compass, after your posts I realize if
anything, I am over estimating your intelligence. But do not
take
Post by Rob Duncan
it
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
personally, its just that you are wasting your life,
you should go join your hero.
Keep slandering people by calling them red-neck, and Ill keep
calling you an idiot. Its no skin off my back.
Rob
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
Rob
Post by abdi
You know what bothered me about him, it really was 2 things.
1- was his dealing with Ayatollahs in Iran, now the
Ayatollahs
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
are scum, they killed hundreds of thousands in Iran.
Some of them purely for the religion (These were the
Bahaiis).
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
And he is thought of as this tough guy, he armed Ayatollahs,
Taliban (Back then they were the Mojahedins) and Saddam.
2- Here was this Dysfunctional family, with a gay son and
daughter in Playboy. Yet he was campaigning against Jimmy
Carter,
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
based on religion and morality.
Essentially he was too phony. I still get a chuckle when I
see
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Nancy Regan and remember her in those gaudy red dresses.
I think he became in people's mind bigger when he left.
He was more intelligent than Dubaya, back then when the
Ayatollahs killed 200 marines, he realized he had put them
in danger and got them out of there by sea. I think he was
intelligent, not to cause more casualty (probably Lebanese)
any
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
more.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Rob,
I realize rednecks love him, but the truth some
times
Post by Rob Duncan
is
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
hard
Post by Rob Duncan
to
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
handle.
Post by Kelly
Post by abdi
Go be happy.
Actually, we rednecks hated him too. The only ones we
hated
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Kelly
more were Reagan Democrats who were buffaloed into
believing
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Kelly
that his beliefs were in the best interests of America.
BTW, how many wars did we get into with Republicans in
office
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
vs.
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by Michael
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Rob Duncan
Post by abdi
Post by Kelly
Democrats? I don't keep up enough on politics to know that
score...I'm sure someone on here has though. :-) Kelly
ChuckMSRD
2004-06-14 08:24:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
I have the idiot plonked and now you reminded me why. What an historical moron.
abdi
2004-06-14 12:28:00 UTC
Permalink
Chuck,

I did not think I will ever agree with you, but you must have been
reading too, anyway yes most people agree that
Ronald was a moron.
Post by ChuckMSRD
Post by Rob Duncan
Abdi, youre an idiot.
I have the idiot plonked and now you reminded me why. What an historical moron.
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